Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

PvE Gameplay Center Missions
105

somebody showed me this fit:
[Jaguar, *Jaguar]
Shadow Serpentis Assault Damage Control
’Basic’ Capacitor Flux Coil
’Basic’ Capacitor Flux Coil

Coreli A-Type 1MN Afterburner
Target Painter II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Small Cap Battery

Rocket Launcher II
Rocket Launcher II
Rocket Launcher II
Republic Fleet 125mm Autocannon

Small Capacitor Control Circuit II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II

Federation Navy Hobgoblin x4

Mjolnir Rage Rocket x1210
Inferno Javelin Rocket x1173
Republic Fleet EMP S x1007
Republic Fleet Fusion S x788
Scourge Rage Rocket x2000
Nova Rage Rocket x1646
Inferno Rage Rocket x1514
Scourge Javelin Rocket x1997
Nova Javelin Rocket x4000
Mjolnir Javelin Rocket x1901
Agency ‘Hardshell’ TB7 Dose III x1
Strong Blue Pill Booster x1

100 hp/s boost cap stable

I’m sure it can be used for something

106

i think you dont break any burnertank with that.

107

you can break the team burners’ tank, maybe. Not the logis though.

108

As a Caldary Alpha Clone, I’m very proud to say that today I’ve completed the L4 Anomic Jaguar Team Burner Mission in my ‘under 5 mils’ Kestrel.

The setup is very simple:
4x Arbalest Light Missile I,
2x Ballistic Control II,
2x Guidance Computer I,
1x 5MN Cold-Gas MWD
load\calef rigs.
I’ve used CaldarI Navy Scourge ammo.

The pseudo bug called ‘very rare wrecking shots’:
like the OP, I’ve also noticed that strange impulsive behavior: you can stay ages at 21\22\23km, let’s say 3 minutes then, suddenly, you are a bunch of wrecks or at 50% structure because of some remote delay that makes the server co-routines to wait for a good second to calculate the actual impact, then allowing those rare and pesky deadly missiles to hit at a ‘wrong’ max range. This is like a ‘rounding seconds’ bonus ‘on steroids’. It looks a lot like the mysterious ‘line accuracy bug’ seen in BSGO.

109

what do you mean by “wrong” max range ?

Missiles actually have two ranges : optimal and maximum.
optimal is ceil(duration)*speed
maximum is floor(duration)*speed
maxrate is the round part of duration (eg if duration is 3.5s, maxrate is 0.5)

when you shoot missiles : all can reach optimal range, and maxrate*launchers (average) will reach maximum range

eg if you have 3 launchers, 2.5s flight time and 10km/s
at 20km you will deal 100% damage
between 20 and 30 km you will deal average 50% damage.
However sometimes you will shoot for full damage at 30km, because rng. So while your launcher states" max range 25km" actually you can sometime do full damage at 30km.

My garmur states 27km range, but optimal is 26.4 km and max range is 40km.
so with luck, even at 40km I may deal full damage (though this is a 1/1000 chance)

110

My hypothesis is that, if the co-routines inside the ‘damage algorithm’ can’t afford to process the task on time (lag…), simply postpones it then processes the event later, allowing therefore a longer flight time, very rare though. I can’ t otherwise explain this glitch .

111

This is not correct.
Every entity is supposed to be handled at each tick(one tick per second).
If this does not happen, then the server is running under time dilatation, and you would notice it.
If a missile was skipped during a tick, this would not impact its range : the distance it goes through , per tick, would be the same, and since it has a keepalive number of ticks(when it reaches 0, it is destroyed) the total distance would be the same. There would be one tick at which the missile does not move(the skipped tick), but the number of ticks it would be running would remain the same, thus his distance travelled.

What I tell you is, the missiles can go above their shown max distance. In my garmur I am told I have 27km range, while I still can do 100% damage on a target up to 40kms away (with 1/1000 chance). So a target at 30km still can be shot for 100% damage.

112

How can you explain a single long and almost deadly shot in a span of 15 minutes, then? I’ve monitored the glitch for a long time at a fixed and very precise distance, regulating my speed between 1222 and 1184 m\s (at 22 km).

113

I don’t explain anything as your experimentation protocole was not described with enough precision to reproduce or deduce anything.

Actually I think you consider the burner jaguar is using missiles, while it is not. It has a very small chance of hitting you for 300% damage on each shot. The closer and the slower you are to him, the more important the chance (up to 1%)

If you want to reduce the chance of getting wrecked, orbit from further. at 25km it is safe to say that the probability to have two successive (in the same minute) wrecks can be neglected.

114

This answer contains interesting information.

115

This is not a “glitch” - it’s the system working as intended according to the algorithm for wrecking shots. It’s also well understood by burner pilots. That’s why nobody orbits the Jaguar at 20km - the chance of wrecking shots is too great. Most opt for 25km. As noted above, you’ll occasionally pick up one wrecking shot at 25km, but statistically you’re unlikely to get two in one mission. I orbit at 27km and haven’t gotten a wrecking shot yet because, while it’s still possible, it’s so unlikely as to be negligible.

So, not a glitch - it’s following the correct algorithm for wrecking shots which is a function of speed and distance.

1 Like
116

Thanx for the info: I’ve learned it the hard way, but I have done it, eventually, the very cheapo way.

So, could you point me out to some relevant link regarding those kind of algorithms, because the ‘normal’ info says that the burner jaguar has a fixed max range (optimal + falloff etc).

edit:
I’ve just found this:

  • Expected damage per shot = normal damage * F
  • F = [min(chance to hit, 1%)3 + max(0,chance to hit - 1%)(0.99+chance to hit)/2]

source:
https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1195986

117

max damage = weap_alpha*3
if the chance to hit you is 1% or less, then taken damage will always be max damage.

Go on the eve uni tracking page, it’s explained.
The formula seems correct to me.

118

Here’s the E-Uni wiki page referenced above.

An excerpt from the damage section states:

“But the surprising part of damage mechanic is that the damage calculations are linked to hit chance calculations. At the heart of each turret’s damage output is a single randomly generated value between 0 and 1 that is several digits long. This random number is used to determine both if the turret hits and how much damage it does. Unfortunately, the misses are those random numbers that would have caused the most damage. If the random number is less than 0.01 (1% chance) a special case occurs, a perfect hit, these will always deal exactly 300% of the base damage. A funny result of this is that when the hit chance is 1% or less, only misses and perfect hits can occur.”

119

This is exactly what I observed: only misses hits for minutes over minutes (no damage), then a single hard hit, and then again more minutes without any hit at all. Roughly 1 hit in 5 minutes (I remained there only to observe this impulsive behavior, to better understand it). I’ve understood the mechanism only when I’ve seen the formula: it looks like an unwanted side effect, honestly.

120

You might be able to make a case that it was initially unintended since it stems from the server only generating one random number per shot that’s then used to calculate both hit chance and damage values. The alternative would be to generate two random numbers, which would require extra processing for each shot. Of course, it’s not normally even noticeable except for these edge cases where the hit chance is extremely low. On the other hand, EVE is full of mechanics that were initially unintended and then later embraced by the developers.

121

I made a video of the Gurista’s Base, it’s still a pain in the butt to run, and doubt the rewards are worth it.

general strategy:
Dragonfly fighters: double web fighter and click approach, they fly away at 0 transversal. maybe pulse ab. When traversal drops, heat guns for first fighter, and kill asap. these guys hurt, you tank will break if you don’t start killing. Heat on the tank might be needed. Depending on how much heat damage you have might be worth using some heat on the second in each wave as well.

Mantis fighter bombers: Heat Fed navy web while approaching with afterburner, typically 2 cycles. I was turning my ab off once I got inside 14km, don’t really need to get any closer with rails. Always be moving! With base speed torps hit for ~100 if you slow down torps will hit for 500+

misc:
*make sure your drones are attacking a bomber and not trying to kill the wyvern on their own.
*Might be worth bringing javelin ammo for the fighters. perfect range matching and any tracking bonus probably helps. need to reload fairly often, and with 5s reload can easily do it between spawns.
*drones I just threw EM drones in there as it said they were shield tanked.

Fit: can play with the meta level on the hardeners, video has a faction AB as that’s what was in my hangar, but shouldn’t make a difference.

[Vigilant, Gurista Base]

Core B-Type Armor Thermal Hardener
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Corpus B-Type Armor Explosive Hardener

Stasis Webifier II
10MN Afterburner II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800

250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

Acolyte II x5
Acolyte II x5

Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x1320
Navy Cap Booster 800 x15

3 Likes
122

Quick questions. What happened to the Cerberus fit for the Burner Talos Serpentis Base (there was also a cap stable one at one point) and the Onyx fit for the Burner Ashimmu Blood Base? (also cap stable) Are these no longer viable or just take too long to complete compared to some of the others?

123

the onyx is still viable arthur.

124

base serpentis is the longest of the missions (bar base guristas maybe)

A good chunk of time is used to make the 180+180+120 = 480 km

now compare the raw speed of hacs.
vaga 295
munin 250
deimos 230
cerberus 220
zealot 210
eagle 202
sacrilege 200
ishtar 175

though the eagle/cerberus have good resists, they lack the speed to match a vaga that can sig tank the taloses.

Otherwise I think a blinged ishtar could snipe the thaloses from afar.

Maybe. 
[Ishtar, wallet warrior]
Shadow Serpentis Assault Damage Control
Setele's Modified Co-Processor
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Sentient Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer
Sentient Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer

Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Pith X-Type Thermal Dissipation Field
Pith X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field

Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Link Augmentor
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Link Augmentor
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Link Augmentor
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Link Augmentor

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit II
Medium Drone Scope Chip II



Warden II x5

I think the ADC allows to tank the three taloses during the time you need to kill the firsT. Just drop the sentry, activate hardeners+ rep, wait for taloses to hit you … then activate ADC, sentries should have finished the first one, you should be shield stable (actually even vs the three)