Can the CSMs please look into this

High Sec can not build any ships from ore mined in High Sec. All frigates and destroyers require Isogen that can not be mined in High Sec.

Also every frigate and destroyer that is reprocessed does not give back the isogen.

Either include the minerals in the reprocessing of ships or remove that mineral from building the ships. I was cleaning up the markets before scarcity by reprocessing all sub caps that were being sold at 50% or less of mineral worth.

That is by design to get parts of space interacting with each other, why not just buy the 1 missing mineral? Also if you really need you can salvage loot droped from high sec level 4’s guns/prop mods/smart bombs can salvage for iso.

If you really need aswell you can find a high-low or high-null direct worm hole and move through it mine kernite move back. It’s reasonably safe tbh as long as its deep and not 1 from high.

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CCP has stated on multiple occasions that they design for global AND local scarcity. They don’t want people to have everything they need, because it discourages interacting with other regions, groups, and people, and encourages them to bottle up and grind away (i.e. optimize towards boredom). Instead, they want players to have to interact with others to get what they want (i.e. trade, ninja mining, wars over resources) because that makes the game more fun.

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Because new indy players don’t have isk to invest in much.

It is 100% wrong that area can not build one kind of ship. Heck to build a venture you need all but one mineral.

Hmm tbh it might be interesting to maybe remove 1 type of mineral from every race just to mix it up a bit or something instead of reintroduce that mineral back into those places.

Fine if CCP want new players to not be able to build anything that is on them.

If the ship requires 4 minerals to build then you need to get 4 minerals back when reprocessing the ships.

Eve is CCP game to drive into the ground but it is costing them players/money.

Before scarcity every high sec region had one mineral that other did not but CCP screwed that up too.

I guess from a lore perspective as well that area’s lower class ship’s (t1) would use local materials the more special ships (Navy) would then use some type of imported material.

But is getting beginner indi guys into making t1 stuff idleal? Don’t the null guys with the structure bonuses for reduced cost dominate that market?

I remember when I first started I went straight for t2 rocket’s and to me made a killing at the time 10m xD and it was fun but I mean you make the isk to buy the missing materials from doing other things like low lvl missions or minning and selling the extra resources that you get too much of. Part of the fun is running into those problems and finding a way around it.

O I can’t find iso? Is it Rare where the hell do I find it O let me try ninja mine in low sec and wam exciting game play. Especially If CCP makes it a mission to ninja mine kernite in low and bring some back and refines it, while giving the player 10 fitted ventures and a really nice reward for the mission but its a once off type of thing.

Yes most new indy guys start building frigate and destroyers because the BPOs/BPCs are cheap.

Null sec would have to ship every frigate and destroyer they build. That would increase the price because of shipping.

So how much do jump freighters charge? How much do isotopes cost for jump fuel?

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Interesting so pretty much cheap + heavy is going to be decent for beginers.

No being able to build any kind of ships to get their toes wet, is what would be good. Most ammo requires a mineral that can not be mined in high sec. So newbros can not even build ammo to get their toes wet.

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I’ve just checked ammo and Inferno rocket is 33 trite 28 pyerite? you dont need anything other than high sec ore for that.

and

…are unrelated. I started doing industry building t1 crap with minerals I buy on the market and any investment is only slightly below the cost of the end product.

Buy a battlecruiser bpc in contracts for under 1mil, buy minerals, build battlecruiser, sell for profit. Investment is 90% of the price of said battlecruiser… give or take a bit. If you have less than 50mil, go with something different like modules, mining crystals, etc.

“new players” should play the hands that are dealt them. that’s what everyone else is doing and the reason they do it is cause it works.

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So new players shouldn’t be indy players?

So CCP killed a whole play style for newbros?

No. New players arent subject to any form of tax that sets them apart from long time players except for the alpha tax on industry and base sales/broker fees.

You’re confusing self-sufficiency, which is mind you a delusion most rookies pursue, with entry threshold. You’re not self-sufficient until you do mining in both hisec, lowsec, and nul/wh.

The only thing youre refusing to do is buying the minerals, and for no good reason. Dont blame your game for a self-imposed handicap.

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Takes Deep breath…

Making ships in high sec is a losing position. Elsewhere I can’t say, I’m a happy resident of God’s Empire.
For example, a Punisher on a fully researched BPO, still makes a loss compared to “sell what you mined and buy the ship”. That’s based on the current state of the Amarr market. Even if you have perfect refining skills (which a new player won’t have) by trying to collect everything yourself you are effectively throwing ISK away - fine if you like to make all your own stuff. Also, be aware as a new player you can’t quickly make all the stuff you will quickly want - T2 Damage Controls for example.

To be very clear that means:
If you sell your ore for the ISK then buy the ship it takes less mining time than if you reprocess the ore to minerals and use them to make the ship.

Even better and quicker: earn the ISK by some other more interesting route (exploration for example) then use the income from selling the loot to purchase the hulls and components you need. And you can buy the meta-modules, the “compact” and “enduring” ones that you can’t make, and get better performance. And some of those meta-modules are cheaper than the basic “Widget I” modules.

This isn’t some Hello Kitty World of Farmville “you need harvest the stuff to craft everything” solo player game. This Is Eve. Build yourself a profitable business making things if you wish (as I have), but learn to exploit the market where you can.

Yes, I bootstrapped myself from nothing by buying the materials and making items I sold for a profit, starting with ammunition and drones (there’s a hint!). I did mine a little, but only until I worked out how Eve actually works.

And Breath.
Rant Over.
Probably.

Oh, and Fuzzworks.

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These are not self imposed handicaps. New players don’t have the skills or isk to risk venture after venture trying to mine in low or null sec.

The way that indy and mining is now, is setting new players up to only run missions or abyssasl and maybe exploration later into the game.

Then don’t mine in low or nul sec and buy the minerals.

Edit: you get the wrong impression of what industry is like. You don’t actively sit and stare at blueprints ticking. Mine veldspar while you build, then sell some/all of it and buy minerals, then turn the money you made into even more money with industry.

Edit 2:

For the record, â– â– â– â– â– â– â–  no. You grab a frigate, you stick a probe launcher and analyzers, and you fly around until you scrap together 25 mil worth of crap from hisec exploration so you can buy some BPOs and starting capital. Also learn to do spreadsheets.

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So mine Veldspar in high sec, sell it on the market and use the ISK to buy Isogen or whatever else you need from the market.

For example: A Venture hold full of Veldspar sells at Amarr for about 500,000 ISK. That can be used to buy, on the same market, 1330 units of Isogen.

And, Lo!, you have just obtained 1330 units of Isogen by mining without leaving hi-sec space.

That’s enough Isogen to build three Punishers if that floats your boat.

(edited to correct a typo!)

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You just don’t get it. A new player will try to source as much as they can as quickly as they can. If a new player can not source the 4 mineral because they don;t have the isk. It will kill new indy players before they start.