This could be the game change we need

Ok before we get started please have an open mind. This is just my thoughts put into a post. I’m not complaining and it’s just something that has been playing in my head for nearly 2 years.

Ore Distribution in the game

When I started, we had this: https://eve-files.com/media/corp/wlds/roid_grid.jpg. It seemed to work for me but I could be wrong. We had people spread out over high sec and low sec more due to the scarcity of specific minerals and so the mining that new player did, helped the economy because the minerals were needed to build things. If no one mined in Minmitar space then there would be a shortage of a specific mineral on the market and created issues. I remember Zydrene being like gold dust when building things because you could only get it in low sec (or so I thought at the time) and that was a scary place. Miners or manufacturers would still try and ninja mine it. This created great content for the low sec entities as a bit of cat and mouse was going on and was fun.

I feel this is missing in the game and I know CCP did away with the Moon Ores having all the null minerals that should have never been allowed in the first place but I think they should go further.

You currently have 8 Minerals and 9 Gas Clouds which is 17 resources for creating items minus the trig stuff.

CCP you need to look at your regions of space that you have as separate entities: Amarr, Minmitar, Gallente and Caldari. We select a character based on this when we start the journey into New Eden but that has no consequence in the game. High sec has 4 regions, Low Sec has 4 regions, Null Sec has 8 NPC Null secs and WH has 6 classes. You should have specific ores in them that can only be found in that specific region and security space.

The biggest issue is that we currently have massive stocks of Minerals correct?

What if you could only mine Omber in Minmitar space and Omber gives you only Isogen and very little Tritanium. Mining would have to be done in Minmitar space because if it does not happen, we as in everyone will have a shortage of Isogen in some time. The lower your sec status of the system is the better Ore is and the bigger the rocks get.

1.0 to 0.9 you get Omber

0.8 to 0.6 you get Silvery Omber added

0.5 to 0.4 you get Golden Omber added

If you can get Golden Omber in 0.5 why would you mine in 0.4?

You see just like with High sec there is a very specific Ore in low sec and just like in High sec it also scales. If you mine in Minmitar Low sec you get access to Golden Omber but you also get access to Jaspet.

0.4 Golden Omber and Jaspet

0.3 to 0.2 Golden Omber and Pure Jaspet Added

0.1 Golden Omber and Pristine Jaspet Added

What this does is simply help push Industry people into actually wanting to go into low sec and form friends with Low Sec groups because there are better ores out there. If you only want to AFK Mine then sure do this in High sec. It also means that every high sec and low sec is important to the grand plan. If low sec entities kill every miner coming into low sec we will have a shortage and so more in-depth gameplay has to happen. Low sec entities will have to start helping specific indy corporations or even have an industry wing that they must protect to extract the resources.

Of course, other pirate Alliances might attack your miners and Indy people so you naturally create Conflict in low sec between the low sec entities.

Moon Mining in High sec

High sec moon mining should be removed completely because no one will do it with the new cores coming in and also you cant compress it so it is a logistics nightmare. I run a 500+ Corp in High sec and most of my pilots are indy people. They hate having to lug the moon ore to trade hubs and have since stopped mining moon ore completely.

Example: We used to have 20-30 Orca pilots online at any time of the day mining 23/7. Moving from one Athanor to another. We had spreadsheets with people Athanors POP and Pull timers so that we can mine other peoples Ore before they could mine it. This has completely stopped to the point we mine only in Astroid belts now and most of my big Orca guys have stopped playing the game.

Let’s be honest here that AFK Moon mining should never have been a thing in High sec where you can’t kill an Orca unless you bring shocking loads of Talos to kill it. It was broken as ■■■■.

Remove Moon mining from High sec and only allow Moon mining in 0.1 and below.

WHAT!

Just like the jump required from 0.5 to 0.4 mining question, there should be one for Low sec into Null sec. There should be an incentive.

Why would you want to live in a 0.1 when you could live in a 0.2 or 0.3?

It is because you can Mine Moon Ore and you need moon Ore because Capitals and above can only be built with moon Ore minerals.

WTF This dude is nuts! Capitals only with moon Ore?

CCP want conflict drivers correct? We have been asking for conflict drivers correct?

We all said there are too many Capitals in this game that we can simply create more and more and people have been asking and always I read about how fun it was when Capitals was used on a last resort sort of thing.

People saying that they miss the old days of Brawling BS battles…

Imagine you a Null sec entity that wants to make capitals or supers. You need Moon Ore that is only found in 0.1 low sec as part of the material requirements. I am talking about the 4 Ubiquitous Moon Ores that can only be found in the 0.1 of a specific region. 4 Ubiquitous Moon ores = 1 for every region and so creates conflict drivers.

If you a low sec entity like Snuff and a small Null sec Alliance like Goons come to try and take your regions 0.1 systems to get to your Minerals… You have conflict. Shoot or talk but there will be conflict.

Minmitar Moons only have Bitumens as an example and no moon ore gives you any of the 8 base minerals.

4 Minerals in high sec

4 Minerals in low sec

Ships from Shuttles to BS that are T1 to T2 use only core Minerals and PI as is now but getting those minerals means it’s going to be tricky and hard but good fun to figure out.

T1 Ships and Items used in the region should reflect this in the Mineral cost. If you build a Minmitar ship and in Minmitar there is a lot of Isogen then that should be the main building mineral required. This goes with Items like Ammo and with Guns.

Caldari can have launchers

Gallente can have blasters

Amarr can have lasers

This means that each region is important to the game and it feels organic.

Pirate NPC NULL

I have always thought that as a new player sitting in a high sec NPC station, being able to just produce a Nightmare because I got the minerals and the BPC is just ■■■■■■■ stupid. These ships in my day where rare as ■■■■ and OMG if you know a guy in corp that had one… dude that person was super cool. They were rare.

I feel having a Pirate anything should be seen as a statement of badassness.

How you do this is very simple. Make it very hard to make Pirate ships unless they made in the NPC Pirate faction space.

Give the NPC Null areas a specific Mineral that can only be found there and so you have to move the mineral you get to a trade hub to make it in High sec. I feel that doing this you will make the use of Pirate ships in Null doctrines obsolete unless you live in or very near a region. You will have Null sec alliances that only fly Nightmares vs another Alliance who only can field Bhaalgorns because of where they are based out of.

This again creates conflict. You can even go so far, that you are not allowed with a pirate BPC in high sec and they can only be created in the NPC Null manufacturing stations. You can only make a frigate if your status with that NPC faction is 1.0 or 2.0 and so as your faction standing with pirates increase it opens up the bigger ships and items as a manufacturing possibility. This creates interesting conflicts because if your alliance has lived in an NPC Null region for let’s say 6 months and you are producing Nightmares as an example. If another entity comes into your space you will want to defend it. Conflict created.

As you can see that this could be a very interesting EVE. Different for sure. Wrong and no way possibly is most likely the biggest issue. But I think it would be a cool way to do it. It will create conflict and slowly pull the game back towards what I think most people want. More simple gameplay where BS and below are the normal and capitals are seen as escalation tools and have value. Where flying a fleet of Pirate BS is seen as an OMG these guys are nuts and also super cool.

WH

Living in a WH should be hard but what you get is even better ships than Low and High have to offer. They should be seen as the boogymen of EVE. They the people that pop in and out after killing you. We need something that WH Alliances would fight over for. NO! You will not have our technology because we want to make sure we have the upper hand. Making T3 only manufacturable in the WH should be looked at and so as the WH Class scales the ships size scales.

  • C1 can make T3D
  • C2 & C3 Can make T3C
  • C4 & C5 can make T3BS
  • C6 can make T3 Capitals

Again it’s about what is in the WH now that can be used to provide the means. You have Gas and so each Class only has access to specific gasses. WH Corporations and Alliances will have to work together to get what they need from the lower classes and help with protecting them from other entities.

There needs to be a reason to want to live there. There needs to be a reason to want to defend it. Only if that is there will we have conflict.

Conclusion

Each area and region should be viewed and thought about as an individual. How that region affects the ships and items used in that regions lore is crucial. It builds a sense of belonging and so means that the race you pick in the beginning is really important. Your race and what you do matters greatly in the game. A true sandbox.

4 Likes

TL;DR.

3 Likes

I agree with the OP, some very good ideas,

so there are a couple of things I want to address here that seemed very important to note.

  1. Please don’t use Omber as an example, it is basically the Worst ore to compare anything to. If you look at how much 1 omber by clicking on This(this is a poor example too because that Math here is wrong) and organize it by isk/m3, you can see that it is the worst ore to mine period! Not to be overly dramatic but the next ore is worth almost twice as much in kernite. In my opinion, it is a poor comparison between Jaspet and Omber since Jaspet is worth roughly 4x as much.

  2. HS moon mining I flip and flop on. On one hand I thought that mining moons was an awesome idea, but you were right that it encourages AFK gameplay. I think the game is coming to a point where we need to introduce finite resources where resources supply starts to be limited so the more you mine it the less that is there until it disappears. Move away from riod belts and use moons until they are gone… once all the chunks are gone then move on to another area until things there are gone. If you are pushing people out into LS/NULL/HS/WH, where ever, they will chase after resources… At the same time you will discourage the AFK(I mined it so its free) behavior and make it an active game style. Imagine a game where Blue doughnut will have to travel to aquire resources!

  3. Although on the surface, Yea Moon mining providing minerals for caps may sound like a good idea… in a nut shell you are saying to someone like Goon, HEY!! Keep doing what you are doing bud! You get access to all these materials to help you out and make it even easier to control the rest of the cap market by invading those 0.1 spaces and patrol them.

  4. do you know how easy it is to print isk doing Pirate missions in NPC Null? it literally prints isk in the game. If you want your idea to work out, all you are doing is benifiting the people that play in those areas who can easily move things in and out with Jump Freighters. Now since you have jacked up the price to a higher price point, you made their easy 250m per hr per one toon maybe double or triple as the market stablizes. most of these guys that I have played with have well over 20++++ accounts and can burn through 2-5b an hour doing just these types of missions. Making it harder and rarer to have these ships would only benifit them and make it harder on you guys lol! Imagine how much more isk they would end up making if you made their resources more valuable.

  5. Have you played WH lately?

Conclusion:

Although I feel as though you have a grasp of the game, I don’t believe you understand how the game works and have very poor views on how economics work. I would encourage you to come over and speak to some of the minds I have surrounded myself with in my corp and speak to them and have them tell you how blown out of proportion this is. I understand your heart is in the right place but unfortunately you need to approach every situation and idea with the notion that everyone that is involved will not only take advantage of anyway to make easy and lazy isk but will abuse it as much as they possibly can. Take this approach both in game and RL.

Hello

Thanks for taking the time to reply to this and in length.

  1. I don’t think you understand what I suggested. The way I explained it or tried to was that All of Minmitar would get 90% of Omber and with this will produce 90% of Isogen and 10% of Trit. The concept of having Veldspar as the core base mineral to be used for everything in the game is a issue. Allowing there to be a more Specific regional spread of Ores and what they refine into could fix the mineral stocks we currently or according to CCP have. Im not saying only give Omber to Minmitar with the current Mineral split but change it. It then means that ships, Ammo and Guns of the race will also change to use more of the mineral found in that area. If you want to fly a Stabber or a Rifter you need lots of Isogen as this is the core mineral for all Minmitar and so each race will have their own core Mineral.

  2. Could not agree with you more about this. Unfortunatley I was starting to write a book and thought lets just keep it short and to the point as much as I can. Limited resources is a definite must. I think the issue we will fall into and maybe why CCP has not done it is that after downtime you get loads of bots log in and mine. If they mine all the ore in the systems then we might have a issue… i am sure there must be a way to respawn it again every so many hours or something but thats for CCp to figurre out.

  3. I must say that null sec is my worst knowlidge gap as the last time lived there was in 2010 but what I dont seem to see is Null sec and Low sec having wars about resources like they used to have when their were R64’s in Low sec with passive moon mining. I thought that by creating a choke point like a 0.1 system it might create conflict. Low sec entities dont like Null pushing them around and so we might get some good content and drive conflict. Again its just a idea and so will be up to CCP to make a choice as to how they approach it.

  4. I did not know this and thank you for pointing this out. I think my approach was really about a brand new player with 2 days old can produce a nightmare as long as you have resources. for me this is broken and feel that there should be restrictions as to how these amazingly cool ships are produced. Forcing them to be only produced in the NPC Null systems assigned to their name from a lore point is kind of cool. You need to be friends and have standing to them to get access to their blueprints and also their manufacturing. People will game any system you put in place but just looking at it from the lore point is kind of cool.

  5. No not lately but what I have heard its not very good. A lot of my WH friends are constantly complaining about stuff and WH need some love I think. This was just a cool Idea but again I will leave it with WH people to come up with something better. I feel there needs to be a draw to WH and why people should come there. Forcing any T3 to only be manufactured in a WH could be a great way to get manufacturing and industry people to take that plunge. Again just a idea.

Conclusion
I do have a great grasp on the game but I’m not going to write a 300 page destination on my ideas. Im happy to hear yours for that matter or if you have come up with some solutions to the problems you see please let me know.

i think the concept is ok-ish.

For example I know you get kernite in amarr space, cant quite remember but i dont think you get plagioclase.

However you get plag in Caldari space, and have to go to losec there for kernite or rely on anoms.

The only way i would see forcing people to go to losec from mining…from HS or NS…put the moon ores back in game, but in very limited quantity and LS only maybe, idk. maybe then you could remove pyroxeres from either Gallente or Caldari and replace with Hedbergite or Hemorphite instead or something…who knows.

Edit: and i dont mean moon ores on moons, put the 15% grades in the belts in LS.

So the thinking is that you reset Ores in High sec and Lowsec completely. I mean a complete redistribution change of minerals in high sec and low sec.

Example:

  • Minmitar get Omber which is 90% Isogen. Minmitar ships, weapons and ammo use mostly Isogen to make.
  • Amarr get Plagioclase which is 90% Pyrite. Amarr ships, weapons and ammo use mostly Pyrite to make.
  • Caldari get Pyroxeres which is 90% Noxium. Caldari ships, weapons and ammo use mostly Noxium to make.
  • Gallente get Scordite which is 90% Mexallon. Gallente ships, weapons and ammo use mostly Mexallon to make.

Now you can have it so that T1 frigates, destroyers small T1 modules and Small T1 Ammo don’t need any other material and so can be made from what you mine in high sec alone in that space.

When you get to the point of building a cruiser you need 90% High sec Ore buyt 10% Low sec ore.

Each regions low sec will have its own unique ore and because there is 4 more Minerals left in the game:

  • Caldari Low sec gets Tritanium
  • Minmitar Low sec gets Zydrine
  • Gallente Low see gets Megacyte
  • Amarr Low sec gets Morphite

As the ship increases in size class the more of the low sec ore you need and the so eventually you get to a 50% split with Battleships.

This will force people to in the long term start thinking about moving into low sec.

Omber was just a ore that I chose as a example.

No one mines in low sec, almost no one that is… the risk is too great for the mediocre ores you can find there. Most of the minerals come from null, and alliance blocks are safer to mine than low sec by far.
Low sec is just a heaven for pirates intercepting transport from null to high sec, way to dangerous to exploit for resources, which again do not measure up to those found in null…
As for making the resources finite, I bolive it would break the game completely.
Some tweaks could probably be implemented to present spawn mechanics to achieve the effects you aim for, but what you are proposing is completely rewriting all the ores in Eve O_o

I mean we have not had a game shake-up in a long time. they keep making these tiny changes and people within 2 months are adopted and it is normal again.

It is rewriting the ores but for a more organic feel. I don’t think Null should be the only place most ores comes from and that it’s broken if it is this way. Every Regions High sec, low sec and null should have its role to play and so people will fight for controlling that. We want conflict drivers… People want power or to show they have it. Lets create a scenario where power can be obtained also in Low sec as with null just like it was when passive moon mining was around.

Low sec entities would have to start recruiting Industry people to protect them so they can get in on the action. At the moment I can count on 1 hand who can mine in Low sec without issues. There needs to be a conflict driver there.

Well it’s certainly an interesting interesting idea. But Null sec is huge compared to high sec and low sec.
I just dont see how it could compete… As for conflict drivers O_o… really, you think Eve lacks conflict?

Iv been playing with the idea of completely removing minerals, and ores from the game leaving asteroids to grant raw isk in place of it, and each item to just cost isk to build.

This would turn mining ships into ships that roam, and with some stat changes to the ships, would move mining forward in a direct that would help it be more engaging and less afk, fighting botting and increasing the chance for pvp ganking, while fighting high sec suicide ganking.

Solid ideas across the board. Doesnt have to exactly what OP said word for word. But the gist is there. Mineral geographical redistribution, scarcity, finite ores, etc. CCP make it happen!

2 Likes

Hello Vixie

If you played the game back in 2007 to 2009 I can tell you now that even Low sec was mental. I mean massive fights with BS and Carrier support to defend Moons and this would boil over to FW zone so that would be super busy. I’m talking like 200 vs 200 FW BS and below fights on gates. Comparing that with what we have now the game feels dead. Low sec has a lot of solo people flying about and then the mega blobs like PenisOut and Snuff. The Mega Blobs don’t ever shrink because who and why would a null sec or other pirate Alliance want to remove them? There is no incentive.

Is there currently a war? Yes, but There is no incentive to remove a Alliance other than to say… Hey look we can do it. There is also no reason for any Alliance to stay and fight.

If Goons wanted to be Ultimate trolls now. They simply go to low sec in interceptors and wait for everyone to claim victory to the point of them stating we were getting tired of Delve and wanted change. They kick out a small Alliance somewhere and set up shop again. You can’t hurt a Alliance like Goons by destroying a structure. You need to make them want to fight and resources have always been the driver for conflict.

I don’t see that this is any better, it seems like make work to me.

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Well I am new to the game, so Idk how things were before. I do agree on what you said about the war, it has no real point other than bragging rights…sigh. Null sec holds much more resources than low so I don’t really see beez doing what you said :upside_down_face:
I see low sec as nothing more than pirate infested border lands between low and null, something you have to deal with if you want to transport your goods to a hub. I just figured that is exactly what it was designed to be.

I like:

  1. Adding resource diversity
  2. Adding complexity to pirate ships production
  3. Adding points of conflict

I DON’T like:

  1. Changing ALL production blueprints
  2. Adding monopoly for resources
    It’s Ok if someone get monopoly for cheaper way to build something
    It’s not Ok if someone get monopoly for only way to build something
  3. Ignoring Jita 4-4 presence by OP. Everything will be sold there (or near lowsec). No exceptions

I mean we have not had a shake-up and I mean a big shakeup to the game in a very, very long time. Maybe we need one?

Can you explain what you mean by creating a Monopoly? How will there be a monopoly?

Can you explain this please? My view is a that you will have more regional trade hubs and not only 1. This feels more organic like RL where everyone does not go to 1 supermarket 200 miles away from your home but you go to your local one. I think that’s what you meant?

Well it’s not exactly how I would have done it but The new dev blog kind of states what I thought could work.