Did you forget that when said SP is extracted you LOSE a portion of it?
What did you think I meant when I said penalty?
No idea, you didn’t make it clear.
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I’m sorry.
I thought it was obvious what we were talking about, and as far as I know the only penalties to SP extraction is the loss of a portion of it and the isk, but the isk cost is secondary to the SP loss.
Are there more I’m unaware of?
Not that I’m aware of, unless you want to convert the ISK and SP cost into real money, then it becomes clear how much it can cost a player when CCP just decide to change things so that a skill then becomes useless to a player…
Incorrect.
When CCP makes changes that actually makes skills useless, like when they removed the learning skills, they refund SP.
When players decide that a change makes a skill useless, because the isk/hour drops, then that’s a player decision. The skills are still perfectly valid, you can still go mine.
You simply can no longer do a particular method of mining for as much profit, that’s how I see your complaint, and I don’t find it a valid complaint. CCP never promised you a steady income stream in game, did they?
The argument of “but it wasn’t my decision” is equally invalid. I can point to real life examples of changes in mining regulations putting companies out of business. Just google hydraulic mining, and know that when they banned that, the equipment to do it became so worthless that they simply left it in the mountains. You can go to gold mining areas today and see mining equipment abandoned over 100 years ago. I can guarantee you it wasn’t the miner’s decision to do that, as appropriate as the ban was most of them simply didn’t care, but they still had to adapt.
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Would people have trained into capital ships, if they had known how prohibitively expensive to build and replace ?
Would people have trained into HAC doctrines if on their day 0 release they had their current role/ship bonus configuration?
Would people have trained Mining to Level 5 to use Tier 2 miners, know the current residue mechanics ?
Do you think as many people would have trained into Rorquals knowing CCP would reduce their power so massively ?
It is not at all fair to classify players who trained the meta of the era simply suffering the ‘consequences’ of ‘their’ decisions when no such thing happened.
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yes they would have !
yes they would have !
yes they would have !
yes they would have !
these skills are not ■■■■ only because you think they are ■■■■ ! youre just not able to see the benefit of this but thats not CCP´s fault !
eve isnt fair …
if you only play for the actual meta then youre a bad player xD
btw … mining has no meta 
mining is simply mining and T2 is still way better in m³/h then faction
Is this an argument that the skill point trading in EVE be removed completely ?
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There are two fleets. One is using t2 miners. The other is using Meta miners.
When the anomaly is mined out, which fleet will have mined the most M^3 ?
always the faction / t1 fleet but they need about 50% more ppl / time to do so 
your still have the way better reward with T2 and if youre not able to see this then youre not the one who should complain about anything
This
and this
cannot both be true. T2 mining is just scarcity by other means.
In case the latest changes were missed, people were not complaining about the time it took to mine the new ore sites, but the pitiful yield of each rock within. Mining with a T2 laser would only have made that worse, combining residue losses along with greater los of M^3 due to short cycles and wear on crystals.
yes they can !
T1 and faction has a very low m³/h compared to T2 ! you shouldnt care about the residue … just move to the next belt and farm it with max m³ and you have earned x times more then you ever could earn with T1 or faction …
BUT → if you only have a limited amount of belts like a renter then youre better with T1/faction if youre able to completly mine your field !
only lazy ppl, dumb ppl and ppl without the correct information can be complain !
you can choose wich one of these 3 you want to be !
Welcome to life in general.
Then quit. That will immediately end your “suffering.”
If a video game causes so much emotional distress that you equate it to suffering, I think there’s likely other, more pressing issues at hand that should be focused on rather than playing video games.
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For this and your other questions : yes.
Let’s be more clear : if people had not trained into it, then CCP would not have nerfed it. so the answer “no” is absurd.
When there is any change, it’s better to make that change a bit OP and balance later. One reason is that it allows to understand, and adapt, the balance faster. Another one is that it brings more people to live-test the issue, and therefore fix them.
I agree with you, that in a game that is supposed to be all about long run(which is the point of skill points, blueprint research), having changes invalidate long-term plans is very bad for players.
And YES I agree that after such a change CCP should partialy refund SP invested in those skills that became unusable in some cases. This would also help people get to the next “feature of the month” and so, evaluate balance faster.
But I would limit that refund, like only L5 skills would be reimbursed.
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Ahem
Advanced Broker Relations ?
again … skills with no usage are getting wrecked by CCP and they reimburse the SP ! if you still can use the skill because you need this to fly a ship, use a module, build some stuff or something else, then its by default not a useless skill and why should CCP refund this ? does not make any sense !
a realy nice skill, but what do you wanna say ? is it a removed skill ?
That’s not the example you think it is.
Margin trading as a mechanic was nothing but a scam most of the time, and a tool to manipulate the market any other time. The common practice was to put up a billion isk buy order for something in one region, and list the useless but rare item for half that price on another alt in a different market. With Margin Trading 5, this was extremely cheap. Someone buys the item, flys it to Jita, and you don’t have enough isk in the buyer’s wallet to cover it, so the transaction failed, and the victim is left with a useless item they can’t sell now.
Once CCP removed the mechanic, the skill had no use, so they changed it to a useful skill. No one lost SP except the scammers, who rightfully deserved it. The actual market barons got a replacement skill that saves them money on fees.
They could have refunded the SP, sure. But again, the only people who really lost deserved it anyway.
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This statement indicates opposition to the SP reimbursement for the refining skill changes…
Yet this indicates that a skill that underwent fundamental changes is undeserving of similar treatment.
Oh it makes sense, the contestation here is either due to a desire to pull the ladder up or a means to continue to profit/gain advantage over those that follow.
Indeed, it was a typically broken machining but CCP approved.
This had a simple fix, negative wallet balances, but CCP for whoever reason sided with the scammers.
Its not what was done, its the lack of consistency. Either reimburse all SP for changed skills, or never reimburse.
That is a judgement call very option to ‘opinion’ and completely discounts the folk who used this for legitimate purposes.
This would be rendered useless by the usage of “alts”.
Sometimes it’s not the skill that is changed per se, but the mechanics around it. Typically which skill was changed regarding the rorqual nerf ? None. So your claim about the roquals would not be correct.
I think you meant “impacted” skills, but then …
It may also allow people to be reimbursed SP while their own gameplay was not actually changed : They tried a gameplay, so investd SP, it did not work as good as expected, they did something else.
In that case, they are supposed to use extractors. Refunding those SP (again while the gameplay they invested those SP for was not changed) would be bad for CCP, since it sends a message “don’t use extractors since your skills will eventually be refunded”.