Says who ? Just because it pisses you that people disagree with you, does not make it the bad place to post complains. Especially when those complains are posted with solutions (or wannabe)
Complaining is a valid form of expression, and is not against the rules.
He is correct in that when CCP changes the game, some people can be left with invested SP that are no more usable in the way they invested those SP for.
Your opinion on people expressing their disappointment is off-topic.
Nope.
You can have negative wallet, no problem. You can try by moving illegal goods near customs with 0 wallet and paying the fine.
The only problem was people abusing alts to do so.
i got a refund of my skilled refining skills oO if you didnt get a refund then you should have file a support ticket !
a change is not a removal … eve handles this since 20 years the same way … adapt or die !
no your “wish” dont make sense ! only because some attributes changes does not mean your not able to use this ship / module / whatever ! it was changed like it is handled since 20 years from CCP ! change the meta … you can be sure they will change the meta in a few expansions again that youre loved ship which got “nerfed” is now again the new meta !
and mining is not changed at all … you got doubled amount of ore in all belts but T2 miners have residue and a better reward … overall you have the same amount of ore you had before this patch ! and if you want the whole belt then mine 50% longer but you have all the stuff !
btw … i can remember back the day when destroyer and battlecruiser was only 1 skill for all 4 races ! one patch they switched it and if you had the destroyer and/or battlecruiser skill to 5 you got all 4 races to 5 … s
but they are still usable oO if you dont want this skill anymore then extract it ! simple solution … we all known that CCP can change everything with the next patch ! if your not able to deal with it then you should play other games then EvE because CCP handles this about 20 years the exact same way … change meta to rebalance the game !
Ive got mining skills, combat skills reproc skills. The only skills ive ever reassigned were PI skills.
Understanding that ccp may and or will change the meta or how we play is one of the fundamentals everyone should learn in EVE. the skills will always be viable to the ship(s). Even though its not a ship you want to use if ccp changes something.
Changing the gameplay is a thing. Invalidating completely a gameplay that required investment of months of SP for this sole gameplay is another thing.
We are not talking about small patches, but instead of those which completely invalidate a gameplay. And yes, that’s very often the case with capital skills.
I agree that for small patches, that’s what extractors are for.
If, for example, CCP changes PI so that only extraction can be done on planets, then yes I expect them to reimburse SP since the whole gameplay of factory planet has been removed.
Even if you can still extract P0 on planets, this is a removal of gameplay.
What game play has been invalidated? Can all ships still be used? Yes. Are they the uber powerful that nothing is better? No. They never should have been to begin with. Rorq nerf was needed.
Agree with that. Does not change that the “rorqual farm” gameplay has been removed.
You can’t punish players for mistakes CCP made. If CCP said “those who invest in rorqual will get bonus” and 4 years later " actually let me think about that", they are the sole ones responsible for the loss of gameplay. So yeah, they should allow people who have been wronged by this promise, to be reimbursed.
And no, players did not “choose to get in rorqual”. It was plain bad idea to not use rorqual, in a competitive game (market) you were forced by the patches to use rorquals.
Everyone who trained that ship did so knowing full well it was broken, and that it was merely a matter of time til the nerf cannon blasted it. Anyone who didn’t was doing the classic mistake of jumping into a capital ship unprepared. CCP didn’t refund SP because someone decided they no longer enjoyed flying carriers after the Fighter change, did they? Or when they combined that with the Ishtar nerf and made Sentry Drones essentially worthless, did they refund SP then? No, because we knew those were broken, but trained them anyway.
If someone lets their greed overwhelm their sense, that’s not CCP’s responsibility to fix.
CCP MAY FIND IT NECESSARY ON OCCASION TO MAKE CHANGES TO OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF THE PERSISTENT GAME WORLD MECHANICS, INTERFACE OR FEATURES OF EVE ONLINE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GAME BALANCE AND ENHANCE PLAYABILITY OR PERFORMANCE FOR ITS SUBSCRIBERS. THESE CHANGES MAY AFFECT OR CAUSE SETBACKS FOR THE CHARACTERS YOU’VE CREATED.
End point, everyone should understand that and agreed to that when creating an account
No, we agree to the rules, NOT to the fact that we are not reimbursed.
THESE RULES MAY BE REVISED AT ANY TIME.
This means we can discuss them. Which is what is done here.
That’s exactly why I said “most cap nerf”, because I was thinking of these (reduction in fighter application).
No. They did not. And this is about, “they should”. Just because you would not have used those SP somewhere else (and I would not either, same for carrier alts), is not an acceptable argument that they did good.
You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP
We all accepted the EULA and im pretty sure nowhere in tje EULA stands that we deserve anything because everything is property to CCP ! They only accept the usage … if they decide to delete 80% of the skills without reimbursement then nobody should complain about it because ITS NOT YOUR STUFF !
Because this means you cant complain about anything which is not your property ! Your char is not your char ! Its CCP’s char and its their decision whats gonna happen with it ! Your only allowed to use it …
Entosis trollceptors. Shown on the test server, pointed out on day 0. Want more? Anchoring an ESS on a citadel. That was declared and exploit before it was removed.
Somethings are obviously cheating. Others are mistakes. When CCP accidentally handed out nightmare BPO’s instead of BPC’s, that was a mistake, but did people who paid billions for them get their ISK back?
Can’t place orders, can’t contract, can’t buy. Its supposed to break the game for the people who do this, its those ‘consequence’ that were referred to earlier.
CCP absolutely did do this. Instead of a meaningless timer or a first warning, they handed out negative wallet balances, I know because a guy in an old corp got a negative 50 billion ISK wallet after getting ratted out by a gold farmer they bought ISK from.
No, this is the kind of toxic ‘take it or leave it’ attitude that destroys a community. When Blackout happened, people did quit, permanently, all to satisfy some whiny 31337 PvP wannabes.
Did not hear too many complaints when all the refining skills were reimbursed, though considering the number 1 skill extracted was mining barge it is not at all surprising.
It never hurts to give the community a bit of carrot now and then, or admit when changes have fallen short of expectations, as CCP seldom does.
Lastly
Personal attributions are not necessary, unless this is pure shilling. There is a saying involving departure and a horse.
You don’t even realize the level of self-contradiction required in your “your char is not your char”.
Indeed, they are toxic trolling.
The fact that CCP owns the game does not make their choice, policy, or attitude, a dogma.
Those CAN be discussed and that is the point of the forum.
The game evolves and we are entitled to express the way we wish this evolution to take.
Pretending that we should not discuss them on the forum because we agree with the EULA is a plain troll.
They keep posting off-context quotes without any argument. That is spam and it prevents any form of discussion.
This has nothing to do with what was said. This character was created after the reimbursement also, and I got my SP back.
Please bring something original to the debate.
Really? This video
Is 8 years old and the Bellicose is still potentially the worst cruiser sized missile platform in the game, Still has the same role and level bonus too. How long should people wait for the ‘buff’ ?
If there is twice as much stuff, it will take %100 longer to mine, not %50. At a average residual loss of 1/3rd of a total now twice as big, the overall yield will be 1.33, not 1.5.
It was battlecruiser, but only if it was trained to 5, people on 4 missed out, rather than getting all races to 4, which would have been ‘fair’ especially considering people who might have been only a day, or a few hours short of battlecruiser 5.
Should learning skills still be in the game, but have 0 effect? Rather than CCP reimburse the SP for those should they have simply sat there for a decade until extractors came along? What about t3c subsystem skills? Should people have been forced to pay for extractors because the number of subsystems dropped by one?
Yet CCP did handle this by reimbursing not only the SP, but the ISK it cost to buy skills that no longer exist.
It took three passes on the Ishtar to knock it from the doctrine of choice. As many passes to stunt carrier ratting. A nerf, then a big buff to battleship EHP after a ham fisted attempt to fiddle with resists. Now moon mining has gone full circle, back to passive moon mining after the only ever ‘re-roll’ of moon materials in the game.
Do not be delusional, one does not change the meta, one changes the game and the meta ‘sometimes’ changes.
There is a difference between ‘can the ship still be undocked’ and ‘Amar interceptors now only have one mid slot’
AFK Cloaky Camping. Finally.
This ^ absolutely. Same thing is being repeated with people lining up in the endencom lighting bolt ships to run sites in under 5 minutes.
If it were not for the rorqual, one might say a reason CCP isn’t already nerfing that into the ground is people are buying piex to pay for the things at 2 billion a pop.
So? Massed macharial Congo line fleet alpha doctrines were broken too, but try telling a FC that.
Would that be seen as a reasonable argument to reset everyone back to 0 ?
Not only can they be discussed, through the CSM we have elected representatives to discuss this also.
and
That is not entirely true. At one point there was a story about an alliance logo being declared the intellectual property of the original artist and CCP was asked to remove it from one alliance, so another had exclusive use over it.
The rules were later altered to ‘fix’ this, but as with many EULA provisions, what is accepted and what the courts can rule may have a certain distance between them.
and now ? did anybody say they change every ship ? oO no … and this is a T1 Electronic Warfare ship so of course its one of the worst missile plattforms in this game … and i´m sure all the T1 E-War ships didnt get this much changes like other ships !
and who said a change is a buff ? who said the bellicose needs a buff ?
meta change is meta change ! in some cases this means its not a good fleet ship anymore but its sill a good and strong ship if you can adapt
thats right but i never said THIS !
read again and think about it ! maybe you can understand it after
BC 4 was also splittet ! i know it because i was late on one char !
and if you only have " a day left " then its your problem this change was gonna told long before so everbody had the chance to get all destroyer and BC skills to 5 !
if they have 0 effects then its a useless skill and worth to remove xD if your loved ship has now new boni then its not a useless ship because it has new boni and maybe a new intended use !
so youre speaking now about 2 completly different things …
meta change and SP reimbursement vs skill removal and SP reimbursement !
and why are you complaining if you get your SP AND ISK back if a skill get removed ?
ah wait … you want all skills reimbursed because they could have another use then you want
the rorqual had also after its big change 4-5 nerfes until its “final” state as it is right now … sometimes CCP need more then one step to rebalance !
and the new “Automated Moon Mining” is only 40%? of the original ammount of the moonbelt ? so … you “lose” if you setup an automated system
they dont change the game xD if they would turn into an Bronze Age Round based Strategie game THEN you could say they change the game ! otherwise its only a rebalance and a rebalance is a try to change the meta ! maybe sometimes its not enough as you could see on the ishtar but they still changing meta´s !
no its not ! you only go a counter because of all the cryhards ! its still a valid gameplay !
the FC knows it very well because he´s using it ! and hes right to use it because if he dont use it the other FC would !
but CCP didnt reset oO they change because they want rebalance the game … and if they reset then they will lose their Real Life Money Pit !
because this Logo was created in Real Life and were Implemented into the game … does not change that CCP is the owner of all of out accounts and chars ! if they decide to ban you and delete your char then there is nothing you can do against it !
