Awesome, thanks for the info!
If thatâs a criticism of stupid crap like abyssals then Iâm all ears, but the game has always been pretty easy to understand. Its only complicated when viewed holistically and each individual activity isnât that complicated. I do T2 manufacturing, it isnât THAT hard. Only time consuming and expensive
Abyssalâs are the best content created by ccp so far. They are extremely good. I personally would not of created a death mechanic until level 5âs.
This is not true. Eve is probably the most complex game in the industryâs history. IV played this game since 2003, and come back with feeling overwhelmed for hours on a return.
Complexity limits the population of a game. Eveâs already losing because of this intentionally design concept.
1 Like
Why and why? Can you actually explain your reasoning about anything?
Hearts of Iron knows where you live, btw.
2 Likes
I explain my reasoning a lot.
Abyssals are in a good position between pvp and pve. They opt for the values of both depending on if you commit to the pvp aspects.
The most important reason for their superior nature in design is because of the team/grouping aspects of it.
No idea who heart of iron is, but i live in seattle. Whats that got to do with anything?
1 Like
No you really dont. Case in point:
What about the Team/Grouping aspect makes these dungeons better than say Escalations or Missions?
Hearts of Iron is a game that makes EvE look like Mr Pop.
As you say the individual activities arenât overly complicated but their overall interactions with each other are, both socially and materially.
Materially, an industrialist needs to chain a whole sequence of events, that acquire raw materials and processes that refine those raw materials into components, together to get the finished product, each event is fairly simple in itself, a 5 year old child could do many of them. The complexity is the overall chain of events, not the events themselves.
Socially in that the chain of events above can be made easier by interacting with others, either indirectly through the market and contracts or directly by combining your efforts with those of other people. On the flipside others can make it more difficult for you to chain those events together, often by explosively removing you from your ship.
So yeah I look at Eve as a whole rather than just the parts of it that I partake of.
Eve is a socially complex game and that social complexity is part of what drives the rest of the game
4 Likes
before i explain i should mention:
Abyssals have a little balance to be done to them. I also think there should be some sort of transport ship with large isk values on it (50-350m depending on level) that leaves on the timers expiration. death should not be a thing until level 5 (even then im not really sure its best)
Why abyssals are better.
The way in which they are designed forces, and encourages player to player interaction. This is so important, and often is almost null in eve (pvp and incursions being an exception to this).
This is why they are superior.
1 Like
A mechanic can encourage player to player interaction, it takes a player to force it.
This would pretty much eliminate any risk from the expedition.
Even if I wasnt against the removal of risk from the Abyss, this would make L4s even more over farmed.
No, it doesnt. You are not forced to do anything regarding Abyssals, except die when the timer runs out.
Abyssals are solo or up to 3 small ship engagements with optional PvP at the end. In what way is player interaction superior in a closed off instanced enviornment of no more than 3 allied people to a mission site in the open world with up to as many fleet members as you like?
No, It provides a shift in the risk to losing optimized hourly rates, not death. you guys are so single minded its amazes me.
no ones advocating risk removal. you just want risk to only equate to death.
Some times people just need to do pve with out death and all the pvp involved or really bad income rates. this is where eve is suffering significantly. IT cannot appease the population that wants to play the game like that.
abyssals offer some âget awayâ to that aspect of the game.
1 Like
No, it means it doesnt even matter if you lose your ship, your wins are still banked.
How do you not understand the economic impact of this?
Yes, you are. Im literally equating risk to losing isk above, and you want to make it so that it doesnt matter if your ship goes, the wins are still safe.
Then learn to PvE properly. The tools are there to do that. As for income rates, what is it you are doing that a multiman fleet isnt good enough?
You cannot say that seperating people into groups of no more than three people maximum is a way to bring people together.
Unless you only have two friends. And even then, you are saying âfly with me and earn protected iskâ not âfly with me and have fun, no matter whatâ
Ok lets do the math on this and see how hypocritical you are.
all null should be 5m / hr
all of low should be 5/m hr
all of high should be 5/m hr.
how are you working on this game and not understand sink/facet aspects? You dont control an economies monetary group with limited income rates. You set the income rate that feels the best, and then work around that.
I dont want the death if you fail to complete in specific timer on it at all, much less in sub level 4.
can you in your limited mind come up with some argument that holds more water then âget good kidâ. it makes you look pathetic. did i ever say i have issues doing abyssals? Why are you then equating my ability to complete or not to your argument? this screams that you have no real argument here.
Actually with wowâs recent years, i am growing more and more of the idea of 3-5man groups over anything else. lower count groups have a good benefit of quickly finding people to do content.
these are all cute dogmatic spins on it. at the end of the day, grouping together for an objective is what it boils down to. you just dont always have to include death in that.
1 Like
What even is this?
Do you even know what rational numbers are?
Correct, so you are advocating removal of all risk from the dungeon, no instadeath and no loss of assets earned. Even though you claimed you were not.
PUGs are satanâs own vomit. They are the worst thing to ever happen to multiplayer gaming.
How often do you use Fleet Finder?
You are the one who is saying there is no way to fly in a small fleet with friends and not die.
Can you in your limited mind even conceive that the rest of us do it perfectly well without having to create instanced dungeons?
Its not about âget gudâ, its about the very basics of how to play this game.
And btw your strawmanning ridiculously here, so please reconsider suggesting others are out of arguments.
So returning to the premise; How do Abyssals in their current form without your edits make people come together more than any other activity, including mining safely?
3 Likes
your logic. we cant be inflating the economy with isk at the end of abyssals, so lets start by removing the 100-150m / hr incursions have, or the 100-500m an hour cap/supers to. etc because your right, to much is going in eve.
Death is not the only form of risk, though im pretty sure i said that a few times.
Did you not read what i said?
Lets recap it again so you can try again.
1 Like
See when I said strawmanning, this is exactly what I mean. Please quote where I mentioned any of this?
Yes, and I agreed, and responded I wasnt talking about Death, I was talking about isk as well. And you want to remove the Isk risk with a magic transporter, and the death risk with a magic dev wandâŚ
I know what you said. There is nothing about Abyssals that forces interaction. It does the opposite by its design. There is no way that you and I could be forced to interact in an Abyss without my choice. No. Way.
You literally have nothing, so you go out with an insult.
Man, this is more ridiculous than your exploding ice idea.
1 Like
This is about half as funny as his csm run.
3 Likes
He told me to shut up and know my place in one thread.
The cheek of it.
2 Likes
He has no shame.
Or clue.