I think you guys in the wardec discord and threads on these topics need to consider that suicide gankers have a conflicting interest with you regarding HS wars.
Basically the suicide gankers are trolling you and internally blocking you and sabotaging any real progress or concensus you can scratch together.
At the very least they are famously toxic, and their tear-mining casts a shadow on your efforts by association.
If you and Lord were to start a thread exploring your doc, I promise to stay completely out of it. I think you will be shocked to see where you will get the most resistance and trolling from…
You really have no intention of defending yourself? Of course you do - you have made countless decisions on fitting your ships, where and what to mine or haul, how much risk you take on before you even meet another player in space, and then you have a whole host of intel/situational awareness tools, evasion options and other tactical decisions you can make to escape.
It isn’t “balanced” PvP in the honourable gladitorial arena sense, but it is absolutely PvP - two players with conflicting goals making moves and decisions looking for victory. In this case however you are the prey item, and they the hungry predator, and your win condition is escaping to safety with your tasty carrots or whatever, while their’s is eating you.
Eve offers up some of the most primal and purest forms of PvP in the gaming realm. I get if that isn’t your thing and you fancy your games with a more Bushido flavour, but I still can’t understand how people can look at the ruleset of Eve and declare it isn’t PvP unless they have some strange, personal definition of what player vs. player actually means.
Of course it isn’t an exhibition of dog-fighting skills - it’s piracy. They just want to take your stuff. Or push you out of some space they claim. Or exhibit their dominance over you through space violence. No one claimed ganking was some intricate form of staged combat or gladitorial contest or honourable duel - it is just imaginary space violence that allows the core competitive game to take place. The game doesn’t hide this - gankers are specifically called outlaws and criminals in the game for engaging in these unfair fights and preying on targets of opportunity.
The game is balanced such that suicide ganking is costly (the point of CONCORD which you seem to miss) or even impossible to use as tactic against the vast majority of ships in highsec. As such, it rarely happens, and when it does it usually is for profit against a target that failed to take steps to protect themselves or their goods from the pirates. This works perfectly fine as a game mechanic, and as a result most players, most of the time are left alone in highsec.
Of all the things wrong highsec PvP and in Eve more generally, suicide ganking is one of the least broken. There are many strategies to make yourself a non-lucrative target and from the MER and other data almost every ship that undocks in highsec returns safely to a station. Yet still, the mechanic introduces some element of risk, and pirates can operate looking for the greedy, lazy and inept who make themselves a profitable target, and still allows a way, if you really, really want to pay the cost for you to even explode an unprofitable target for some greater goal in the sandbox.
Seems like a workable system for high security space, in a full-time PvP sandbox game that features ‘pirate’ as one of the intended professions.
Of course it is not. I am notactivelyfighting back.
Nope. You can’t speak for me, or my intentions. Please stop doing so.
What you quoted thereafter is a litany of evasion and avoidance tools. Not fighting tools.
Ah yes, but you are the one previously talking about not comparing apples with oranges. You cannot equate PvP, as in duelling (or fleet vs fleet), with PvP as in ganking. And if you do, I don’t agree with you that they are equivalent.
Yes you are - or at least you should be. You are playing a competitive PvP game where you are always open to interactions with the other players. If you ignore that fact, that is your prerogative, but it doesn’t change the fact it is true and you entered a virtual world with your PvP flag set to ‘on’ when you undocked.
You can do hundreds of things that will influence whether or not you safely make to to your destination with a hold full of cargo or ore just like the predator can do hundreds of things that will affect their chance to successfully catch some prey. Players competing against other players to further their own interests.
I told you as the prey item you want to escape. Evasion and avoidance tools are your best strategy, just like it is for the rabbit encountering a wolf. There are others of course - if you are a rabbit who thinks you may run into a wolf you can call your friend, the grizzly bear, for help, but evasion and avoidance are your most reliable and accessible tools to win the PvP encounter.
I guess I could be wrong, and that your intentions are that you actually want to be exploded, but that doesn’t seem very plausible.
They aren’t the same, but they are both PvP. One is balanced and fair Space Samurai combat like say the AT, while one is opportunistic PvP and looking to exploit a weakness in an opponent. Eve is great as it allows both, and the whole gamut of PvP between the extremes.
But to be fair, any impartial observer will tell you that most of the encounters in Eve run more towards the opportunistic and unbalanced end of things. This isn’t unique to highsec crime, but takes place everywhere in New Eden where players look to take fights where they have a significant advantage and something to gain, not ones that are “fair”. That’s just the nature of a open-world, full-loot PvP game like Eve.
actually tethering is much healthier for PvP. it would be nice if stations had it.
no more getting killed because you black screened to long, no more getting insta popped right after hitting warp. no more docking after biting off more than you can chew just because you managed to outlast your weapons timer it pretty much kills all the most toxic forms of station gaming.
and when it comes to the structures you could always blow them up to force even more pvp
No. You’re doing it again - telling me what I “should” be doing - stop it.
I agree. Just not with any definition which says competition either must include or equates to “fighting”. (Other than fighting for survival; I would agree with that.)
Exactly. And the OP - in the sense of the person I was responding to - was suggesting they were. In that, and I quote:
I was just making the point that they are different things. Yet both competitive as you say. End of argument.
It really breaks my heart that tethering has eliminated station games. Now if we could only get station defenses to fire on any MTUs within a 250km radius…
(Furballs? Nasty. I would stop licking the cat for a few days if I were you doll.)
Contracts. Yes. Didn’t consider those. They would certainly work in one direction. You want some glare crust? Sure, I’ll sell to you. You seem a nice guy; you do like cats after all.
Not so easy to contract if a buyer cannot be pre-identiifed though. What would I do, advertise first on the open market and then refuse to sell? Not allowed to do that. But … you still have a valid point. I did make a sweeping generalization, and you did find a hole in the argument.
Finally! I hope one day any structure will have tethering.
Just yesterday i was almost blapped undocking from one of those stations where docking area is almost not exist. Undock, there is alpha hurricane outside waiting for me. And i’m in travel ceptor. Stop the ship but what… ? I’m already 1 km out of dock area.
I really have no ideas what was an idea for such…
I’m not sure why anyone would be against making highsec more vibrant as far as player interactions are concerned. I see a lot of complaining in this thread but a lot I imagine are null sec dwellers or their alts. Surely they have no problem avoiding the low skill highsec pvp’ers. Clearly if you pvp in highsec you “should move to lowsec or null immediately” and learn to pvp cause you have no skill. Its funny people can’t avoid these low skill pvpers though
that tethering has eliminated station games. Now if we could only get station defenses to fire 
on any MTUs within a 250km radius…
