confession of parcel pusher 
You have good intent but you are not reading what he is writing.
When you asked the question about why he was not doing PvP in EVE I immediately knew that the reason was consequences. In a MOBA if you die or lose the game, you just respawn or join another game. In EVE you lose some actual thing.
Not everyone is suited to handle that, some people are not afraid of loss, but others certainly won’t sacrifice their relax time to it. Plus, nobody normally assembled enjoy losses, what they enjoy is the competition.
Pretty much, he is telling you he doesn’t want to risk the loss and you tell him he should risk the loss anyway…
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You’re right and that’s why I tried to put it into perspective. While losses in EVE are real, so are the possibilities to replace them. I guess I tried to pose the question of how the backup wallet or so: how much ISK does he need to feel free in all his choices, and why not develop a care-free approach to everything beyond that treshold.
Hm… if you shorten it like this, it sounds a bit weird. 
But yeah, I think I’m trying to root for losses in EVE not generally being a bad thing. That’s why I was suggesting to not see a cheap PVP roam as risk, but as certain loss of ship in exchange for fun, visiting a few systems, meeting a few people, activating a few modules and so on.
I’m not saying this has to be fun for everyone, but I imagine that for people who only know PVP from the perspective of being the victim of a gank, hotdrop or gatecamp, it could be good to experience something else. Deliberately looking to shred a ship while giving the best fight one possibly can, might help them become much more calm about PVP in general. He might not feel stressed about highsec PVPers afterwards. Basically PVP in EVE can be a pretty safe environment for learning to relax.
(That’s also why I’m not a fan of people trying to “harvest salt”, as this probably has the largest negative effect on the willingness of people to experience PVP.)
Anyhow, I’m not trying to preach and I can accept if people don’t want to try it like this or simply don’t want to be involved in ship vs ship fights. I was just trying to show a different perspective on the inevitable game-reality, that PVP is either your choice or not your choice, but it’s always there.
It’s not about losing virtual items. It’s about losing time, which is the rarest and most irreplaceable currency.
I only have so much time to burn stress. EVE Online’s PvP doesn’t cuts it.
It’s nice that you enjoy PvP. More power to you. I don’t PvP in EVE Online and will never do. My only complain is that CCP decdied with the Rubicon plan that people like me should be like you or quit, since they would not be developing anything for us. And that’s what they’ve done for the last 5 years, and actually people like me, and me myself, have quit the game for absolutely no good.
After the Rubicon plan, EVE is a quite smaller game providing smaller revenue to a smaller company. This is the legacy of CCP Seagull.
CCP didn’t kill highsec PvP. They’ve killed highsec.
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Thanks, that’s nice. But actually you probably do PVP. I assume you buy and sell things at some market or hub. This means you take influence on other peoples gameplay. You play a (albeit minor) role in conflicts of others by providing things they use for fights or opressing their opponents, you put pressure on prizes which might be of core importance to others who fight over empires. Basically, you almost can’t not be a part of it. There are no innocent bystanders in EVE.
Well, if that was so, it’s certainly not nice. I’ve read the Devblogs from the time and I can’t find anything that hints at CCP making any such decision though. Regarding PVE development… wasn’t there just recently the Abyss expansion, which provided a new source of income for Highsec? Plus, you guys got moon mining now. And small-scale Industrialists in Highsec can produce way cheaper than before.
Hands down, what do you think should be done for you?
I don’t know about that. It could also be that highsec killed itself. When I started playing, most of the people I met in highsec were selfish and either had no intentions to play the game with others or they had weird aspirations which looked to me like they want to exploit new players.
For me, EVE is only EVE as a multiplayer game. People who decide to live in an online shell and not create any kind of content for other players, they don’t have a positive influence on the game in the longterm. It’s only them them them. They ask what the game can do for them, but never what they can do for the game. EVEs story is written by player for players and if an entire part of space decides to not write any kind of story, I’m not really surprised that people start boring each other.
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Those are people who set out to Null-Sec to make themselves a name, as the actions in that space gets the most attention when things really go down there.
A hauler with hundreds of skill injectors getting ganked at jita? Chuckle of the day and move on.
Alliances clashing at wars, with thousands of ships in the grid and trillion in assets being at stake? Talk of the week, plus gaming websites feature an article about them and the (fleet)leaders possibly getting mentioned, maybe even interviewed.
It’s not that people don’t want to write themselves a story, it’s because many work better with proper leadership, which motivates, guides and directs them. And if the top aren’t getting their corpmembers entertained, then everything ends up in a slug. And wardeccers in their lokis/t3cruisers camping them out and drain the fun out of them arent helping, either.
The thing is that most of his complaints are invalid, except for Citadels which do seem to offer too much protection. He did a poor job of highlighting the issues with Hi-Sec PvP (of which there are probably plenty).
Your post was somewhat better because you provided a valid example (Crimewatch) but you also spent a lot of time going off-topic before that. Both posts constitute a lot of words but little actual relevant content.
I thought you were over these nonsensical exagerations about how there is this huge amount of new players who are being griefed by suicide gankers. You seemed to be so reasonable and now I see this ■■■■. I am sure that, on a good day, you notice how your post comes across and that it was just a mistake written out of an irrational emotional reaction.
There is no mass griefing happening by evil PvPers who drive new players away. The whole situation is much more complicated than that.
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His point was hypotethical, mine too. Making NPC corporations wardecced would remove one safety layer around new players -and you could bet your ass that it would be exploited by killboard padders. Wardeccced NPC corps would be free candy, SOMEONE would ate it for sure.
And yes, the situation is a lot more complicated. But highsec PvP is not the biggest issue with highsec; PvE is where the game is going down the sink. EVE could have all the PvP issues in the universe if PvE population was healthy and growing strong. Whereas no amount of PvP perfection can keep aloft a game that’s losing PvErs the way EVE has been doing since Rubicon.
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Agreed, that would happen. The idea would be interesting if the respective npc corporations had some sort of unity, but not in their current state. Except for CAS, assuming they are still a thing.
Both sides of the equation lost during that time and still keep losing, only to be replaced by people with both low thresholds and low standards. Under certain perspectives we share a lot of ■■■■, with CCP being the enemy we would need to unite against. : - )
If the game has been losing ‘pve’ers’, then it hasn’t been losing anyone that matters. All PVP’ers do PVE as well.
Well, there is that little issue with PvErs being paying customers and CCP having lost a lot of them specially since the Rubicon strategic plan was implemented.
After losing hundreds of thousands of “noone that matters” on their cash cow for 5 years, CCP is now a smaller company earning less money even after implementing the full stimpack of MT + F2P.
CCP Seagull’s legacy it’s -30% PCU, -10% global revenue and -30% employees, AFTER stimpack.
As the proverb goes, “too many a mickle make a muckle”. 
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This game wasn’t designed for people who just want to PVE, and yet, here it is, 15 years later, because there are more than enough people who do want to PVP who keep it running. You continue to make the mistake of conflating ‘more’ with ‘good’. No, more people in this game is NOT good. More of the right kind of people that this game is intended for is good, but people quitting because they can’t accept this is a PVP game and they don’t just get to do PVE and be left alone to do it is no loss, because at the end of the day, this game either stands on its merits as a PVP game, or it dies. Whether it dies by proxy of losing too many players, or dies by becoming something completely different, it still dies.
You really do need to stop pretending that we need to care about the people who quit. It’s not a loss because they were always going to quit. This game isn’t for them. There isn’t a game in the world that is made for everybody, not one, so stop pretending EVE needs to be the exception.
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This needs emphasis.
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‘Shrug’
I’ve been a player on and off over a couple years now. I’m NO PvPer…sorry… I just don’t feel I have anything to prove and I don’t relly get a buzz out of killing the ships other players have spent time and effort to build ~ especially when I know how hard much work it is to build the ISK to do so. Yeah, I’m an Alpha… but I have paid CCP for plex to convert to isk for building some of my more expensive ships. So… I’m not complaing I’m effectively getting a free ride… I understand that.
I had planned to go Omega when I had maxed out my Alpha clone skills… then CCP basically opened the flood gates this summer and now… with 2 battleships in my fleet of ships I have little incentive to go Omega. Though I still intend to at some point. I was kinda disppointed when they did open things up for Alphas…cause of this fact… I now lost the major incentive to go omega. Oh yeah if I were a PvPer I might still have the incentive… because serious PvP’ers need the Omage gear to make them truly cloaking, scramming killah’s!
Yeah, I keep mostly to HiSec space pve missions and mining… this is enough for me… I enjoy the beautiful work CCP has done on this game. I’m not complaining about how things are for me they are fine, though admittedly I think I’m not really in a position to complain, being a alpha and not a PvPer,… I’m not truly a paying customer.
BUT my point is CCP has still gotten cash out of me…buying plex or specialty items. ‘Shrug’ I just think the game has room for players like me… but it is disconcerting how much lack of incentive to switch from Alpha to Omega CCP’s own choices have created. I WAS looking for ward to going full Omega… now it s kinda not really needed.
I’m not l33te player but I have learned a bit of whillyness to avoid space sectors dangerous to my form of play… I would not be opposed to threat of High Sec PvP ~ one on one… but PvPer’s never do one on one… expecting a lone player to fight off a team of 5 or 6 gankers is kinda unfair, unless your goal is to force players to do everything in groups of 5 to 6 even mining with armed escorts.
Not really a suggestion, just giving my opinion. I think it is a bit short-sighted to just say WACK all the PVE Alphas and the game will be better. I do contribute giving what little advice I have gleaned from the game to the new players… is not the EVE Universe big enough for me too?
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Perhaps wait a little. Maybe it’s only delayed now and you’ll come back to the point where it feels like you should go Omega.
This kind of thought has improved PCU from 52k to 37k 2013 to 2018, has increased CCP’s manpower from 440 to 298 2012 to 2017 and has raised CCP’s income from 72 million $ in 2012 to 64 million $ in 2017.
If this is your benchmark of success, then CCP is leading EVE from victory to victory until total defeat.
Yeah, who needs customers, when fans are enough!
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Stop. Just stop. By now, you can only be missing the point INTENTIONALLY. The game gets lots of new players. I was new once, and here I am, so it obviously still attracts and retains new people. New people that the game is intended for DO stick around. You keep pushing this false dichotomy that the game must attract as many new people as possible, or only retain the old ones. That’s not true at all. The game does attract new people that stick around, but MOST people who try the game will leave, because it is a niche game.
And you really need to get this ‘niche game’ point through your incredibly thick skull, because the FACT is, it will ALWAYS HAVE A LOW PCU. Just because it’s lower now than in 2013 says nothing about the game’s total health or its financially viability, especially since the game grew on much lower numbers than it has right now. And everyone keeps crying ‘the sky is falling!’ just because CCP made, what, 8 million dollars less money? OH NOES! They only made $64 million? THE HORROR! WE’RE ALL DOOMED!
You’re an idiot.
The game does need customers, and those customers are either its fans, or fans in the making. Your last sentence suggests customers and fans are mutually exclusive, but they’re not, they’re the same thing. If people don’t like the game, they shouldn’t and probably won’t play it. That doesn’t mean you change the game just for the sake of making everyone like it, because then what you have is the problem of trying to please everyone - you’ll end up pleasing no one.
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And you still don’t get it.
EVE needs BOTH players who are not very invested and only play for an average of 2 years, and players who become superinvested and play for 5, 10 or more years. And they need a lot of the first, as the later are always a tiny minority of all new players.
Since Rubicon, CCP decided that they wanted more players who are very invested, and de-prioritized the players who are less invested. As a result, CCP has been losing customers and revenue and that’s bad. Less revenue means less employees, less expenses (and thus less quality), less development, less everything.
I wonder what kind of blindess prevents you from noticing that losing customers and revenue is a disaster for any company. There is no “positive” way to lose business by losing “wrong” customers…
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I remember this, you were initially not in favour of the freedoms present in the game; and then you saw the light.
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