So much for not replying eh 
Dracvlad, I actually read it. I really did, all of it.
Most of it I have nothing to say about, because yes… it’s going to be insular because you’re dealing with a niche group of players who represent a small portion of the EVE community. You are correct on that point, however that is not a bad thing inherently as they represent those who are most impacted when it comes to the actual prosecution of high sec wars.
I still am not a big fan on structures playing a heavy role in high sec warfare, as bashing them saps the will to live for all involved… also from my experience almost never do structures actually get defended properly when threatened. On the rare occasion they do it does turn into something wonderful, I’ll be the first to admit that, but that is the exception… not the norm.
As far as the defender is concerned when we’re talking wars, I don’t really think they need any help. CCP has already made it easier for them than ever before to not get sploded if they don’t want to. The burden of effort is now as it has always been on the shoulders of the aggressor; the aggressor who is now hobbled and blind for the most part.
I’d welcome any reasonable fix to make wars less of a hub and pipe camping thing, but most responses seem fairly unreasonable and CCP isn’t in a big hurry to fix things.
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My last defender closed corp which surrendered.
Is that a victory?
I was only wanting to clear some offensive cans tbh.
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It is when there are two sides and if the only one listened to is from one side.
This is currently the case in hisec, because in the main it is indy people failing to defend their structures as they cannot. What I was doing was turning it around, putting a big target for people in hisec to be able to step up and have a go on something that has consequences, but also give consequences to war decking the wrong nullsec alliance I was hoping that a couple of events would get the ball rolling.
The whole thing is to change attitude, whether it would work is another matter, but I did not want CCP to do something like capture the flag.
The objective is to it interesting for them to go and get exploded, because part of the reason why it is so stale is that you have a group that wants to avoid at all costs and are set up to do so and on the other side a pretty risk averse group that picks off easy kills. It is not a good mix. And when you tell truths like that people get upset at the messenger. I am not saying everyone is like that, but the majority.
I also wanted to give back with the Citadel some sort of watch list facility with the agent.
CCP does not seem bothered, but both sides don’t like hisec war decs as they are.
And another thing I suggested was that if people leave a corp under a war dec that war dec will follow them to another player run corp within that week. After all you have to get the balance right. Yes they get away with the NPC corp but you do not have the travesty of seeing people instantly start the corp with the same name.
Anyway, I started to get into this again…
Human nature is a hard thing to change.
I know this all too well, as I was a full on carebear for like seven years. Mining and industry were my things to start with, could not properly put in words how excited I was when I got my first Hulk… back before the rebalance and even before they introduced PLEX. My friends had shorter attention spans than me, so I got into mission running as well so we could have group activities that didn’t involve them watching paint dry as the cargo hold filled with ore.
They left. I explored alternatives, fell in with a bad crowd that lured me out into null to do some ‘pirating’. It sounded exciting, it wasn’t. Pirates and Industrialists are fundamentally the same, they both are focused on profit… and these guys were terribad at it. We ventured into high and suicide ganked a shiny hulk… apparently for the killmail I guess, as we spent well over a hundred mil in ships to gain ourselves a whopping ten mil or so in loot.
Thing is, once I joined the Devils a great truth was bestowed upon me… the skills needed to do horrible violence to a fellow capsuleer were almost identical to those for running missions, it was just a matter of method of application. Any mission runner can become a deadly foe if they understand how to use the tools at their disposal to properly do harm.
They don’t, though. Most of them run or hide rather than take the opportunity to learn more about their own capacity to exert force. That’s the human issue coming back to bite you. It’s really easy to assume that you have no chance and behave thusly. That’s what most do. Some actually fight, but because they’ve limited their horizons so much they don’t understand HOW to properly utilize what they have and they lose. Still, those who do are more likely to receive proper advice and what passes for mercy in EVE because they at least were willing to try… which put them in the 1% really.
Back on topic, i would argue that one side… that of the defender, has already been heard over and over and over again with the ceaseless threads complaining about how war is so gosh darned unfair to them. The opposing view is the minority, and also not near as vocal.
The idea of the citadel isn’t completely terrible, despite me disliking it intensely, but I do feel that it’s one of those things that would fall under the shadow of Malcanis’ Law. It would favor the large groups over the small ones.
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I understand where you are coming from, I agree with you in most of what you said. I PvP and enjoy it and have a good idea what to do, I don’t find war deckers that threatening in the main, there are a few that I would avoid…
Personally unless I had a counter to a certain level of neutral RR, I would avoid PIRAT, the thing is that I would love to find enough people with the right attitude to be ready to come in and bash that neutral RR, but they don’t exist really. This is one of the biggest blocks to fighting back which was correctly assessed by Lord Rapz, however I think it comes down to attitude and no perceived value in fighting back for the defender, most of the time it is not even fun and that is another issue, when you see a Merc gate camp run and dock a few times you do get a bit meh about it.
To be honest about it, many of the defenders whines do have some truth in them, it is all a question of perspective. For a start what is the value of fighting back if by doing so you come to the attention of other war deckers who also want content, generally what happens is that the defender corp dies as its player base melt away under multiple never ending war decs. I have seen it happen too many times.
I don’t like Malcannis law, of course this would favour the large nullsec alliances a bit, but the situation would be fleeting, a loss of a citadel, the time to get the agent back, pay for new war decs, would be a pain, but it is designed to be a pain in terms of consequences. Most nullsec alliances would not do it, but imagine if a number did and then we saw the conflict in null spill over into hisec wars around citadels, it is content.
And my hope is that it sets an example for hisec for people to say, we could do that, though it may be that the war deckers will avoid certain nullsec alliances and blanket even the smallest hisec corp to make up for it. But then the blanket war deckers would start to be starved of content and they would risk it and create change.
Another thing I wanted to do if it became to difficult was to adjust it in terms of enabling the war decker to define multiple citadels with a CONCORD agent, so less of a hit, maybe allow two or max four. So it does not kill the war decker. Things can be adjusted a bit from this base, Faylee actually liked the content that would be generated from it when we exchanged on it.
Dude
They have like 150 wars
That’s 150 groups of people that can group up and keep PIRAT docked for a long time
It’s up to people to organize and ■■■■ ■■■■ up…
Just look at the E-UNI/PIRAT war, it’s exactly what they did.
Furthermore, PIRAT doesn’t have VMG or PE to come save them in dire times 
All you really need to get mercs to leave you alone is a good leader that isn’t clueless and members willing to follow him.
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What you are picking up on here is the core issue, you have someone on PIRAT just feeding on people who are unable or incapable of organising like that. EVE-UNI is not a good comparison as it is a large alliance with a structure used to fighting war decs.
Trying to organise the rest of hisec to do that is like herding cats. It is not a case of finding a good leader, you have to find a truly exceptional leader to do that, and this is what you are ignoring.
VMG and PE merged into PIRAT…
Them don’t blame mercs if all the decced people are not smart enough to organize themselves. Thousands of people can do more against 20-30 active pilots than the opposite
My bit about Malcanis’ Law was pretty much referencing those 5-20 man corps out there. They stand no chance without outside allies coming in to help them. Even a small wardec corp that can field only half a dozen ships is gonna push their shite all the way in. Whereas groups like PIRAT or Marmite could easily field a score of these citadels at once. Limiting the number of structures would change things, but only in a manner that benefits those who aren’t actually willing to fight, also it would result in splinter groups designed solely to field more structures so that more war could be had.
What I would REALLY like to see implemented is the aggressor being able to set specific terms for the defender’s surrender… beyond them simply not re-upping the war. I’ve felt for a long time that this is something that has been lacking.
As far as defenders fighting back… I guess we’re weird that way. We actively recruit from those who we find to be plucky and spirited and not a freaking fountain of salt upon impact. We’ve even be known to in the past to ship down to a fleet composition that could more fairly engage a foe that actually wanted to throw down and play it out. We’re dinosaurs though, I admit that.
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I am blaming both sides for this. The mercs have done some truly stupid over the top farming in their desperate search for content. Don’t forget that the same thing happened in nullsec, the example is Waltreipers alliance in Delve, they gave a hell of a fight for their space and so many people were queuing up to fight them that they had a hell of a time keeping their members and stagnated. That is what happens in hisec.
I am not against this, mercs in hisec are effectively extorting a lot of hisec anyway, this just makes it more evident. My issue is more to do with what benefit does the surrender get you, how much of a break and with PIRAT all you will get is their alt corp war dec you. The defender will end up going nah…
My objective on this was to start hurting the blanket war deckers, because they would upset the wrong people in their quest to find stuff to blow up. I was expecting the mercs to adjust their situation, perhaps even creating coalitions against certain nullsec alliances.
I asked Lord Raptz if he war decked the Goons at all, and getting an answer from him was difficult. As the Devils was an alliance that to me was proper mercs and war deckers imo, I would think that you would not normally war dec the Goons because you would see it as being too much of a pain. I use the Goons as an example as they have the attitude to go after people that annoy them.
If someone wanted to war dec you they would have to either stay within the five war decs without this or have a citadel, which of course is a focal point to push potential content, if your TZ’s match of course.
You guys are a step above the others and I noted that when looking at war deckers, PIRAT and VMG most definitely did not have that attitude. IMO you guys were never a problem, you were actually fun.
What amused me was you getting a kill on Imbor…
Raaaawr
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Pretty sure we did dec Goons a few times in the past, as well as CVA and a few other major null groups in hopes of generating some action for our members.
It usually didn’t result in much, so I can imagine it’s not very attractive considering the cost to do so.
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Yes, and that is why you would have less of an impact as you were focussed on a different type of content, and I could not see why LordRaptz could not get that. Don’t forget that the Citadel was to come with a CONCORD agent who would allow more than five war decs and give you a sort of watch list and locator when you went to speak to him in person. So it was trying to enable hunting again even with my feeling that the watch list was over powered, but I recognise that you have an expectation to find something in an hours play.
Tying wars to structures shouldn’t be a solution
Tying anything to structures really…
The sandbox stops being a sandbox the moment you force something onto people
E: also as mentioned so many times
Doing so would give a greater advantage to large groups while making smaller groups suffer even more than they do now…
Id be up for something more fulfilling than looting and altbearing. But theres not exactly a queue of people looking to organise.
That is nonsensical, so many things in this game are tied to structures.
I have heard you come out with this before, well this game is full of people forcing others to do something.
And why does this suddenly matter in terms of hisec war deckers as compared to the rest of the game? Why are you special?
Why do you come out with such statements all the time, really…
It always mattered
It was always brought up in any discussion we had on discord
Why are you so inclined on trying to insult people that have different opinions?
Oh wait…
You are doing it again, do you know what dum dum, ■■■■ off.
The question is why are hisec war deckrs so special that what happens everywhere else in the game cannot happen to them, so what makes them so special that you get special protection against other bigger entities and that no one can force a fight on you that you have to take or lose something of value, why are hisec war deckers special?
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Well for either of you, would what happened to me still happen in your ideal solutions?