CCP MasterPlan in 2010, Ladies and Gentlemen. Outlaws of EVE

[Kezrai_Charzai]

@Daichi_Yamato

High sec is not safe. It is not designed to be safe. It is as much a pvp area as low sec, the rules are merely different.

That’s what I’m referring to when i say ignorance and tunnel vision.

Gotcha! Well, glad you responded to my actual question with a deflection away from it. Nothing like bafflegab to hide when you’ve completely turned around on your own point I guess. Or wait, maybe it was a different Daichi Yamato who said:

@Daichi_Yamato

Hi-sec being too safe has resulted in a boring un-engaging game. Player interaction is down. Player retention is down. Player activity is down.

All because hi-sec is too safe. Oh wait, but it isn’t! It’s unsafe! By design! You just said so. It’s kind of like watching someone play ping-pong solo.

If by “tunnel vision” you mean I actually focus on the facts and the topic, rather than reversing my opinions 180 just so I can argue, I think I’ll take that as a compliment.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Kezrai_Charzai

All because hi-sec is too safe. Oh wait, but it isn’t! It’s unsafe! By design! You just said so. It’s kind of like watching someone play ping-pong solo.

‘Safe zone’ and ‘too safe’ are not contradicting terms. In English the two can both apply to the same thing, and do.

High sec is a pvp zone. It is not a safe zone.

But it can still be safe enough or too safe that it makes the game boring.

Keep showing you up…

[Kezrai_Charzai]

@Daichi_Yamato

High sec is a pvp zone. It is not a safe zone.

But it can still be safe enough or too safe that it makes the game boring.

Uh, right, High sec is not safe, but it’s too safe. It’s a PvP zone, but EVE is boring and unengaging pretty much just because high sec is a PvP zone but the ‘PvPers’ can’t PvP there because the rules make it too risky to do so. ‘PvPers’ are all about risk as long as someone else is taking it, I guess.

So, back to the question, which you’ve been dodging for a while now: since 85% of the systems in EVE are wide open for PvP, why is it that ‘PvPers’ such as yourself keep blaming the problems of EVE on high sec PvP? Do your maps not show all those other thousands of systems, where everyone PvPs?

Could it possibly be that there are structural, fundamental game design flaws in the current setup of EVE, in which high sec issues account for maybe 15% of the overall problem?

I would think ‘tunnel vision’ would refer to people who keep trying to blame ‘all the things’ on one small portion of the game, a portion which real PvPers barely care about, rather than those who look at the systemic design flaws EVE has experienced almost since it began.

Here’s a tip: fun in the early years of a game, when most people are new, lots of people are only moderately experienced, the playing board isn’t tilted towards the people who’ve amassed 10+ years worth of SP, ships, ISK and gameplay experience, when everyone and their dog didn’t have a supercap and a full suite of 3rd party tools to help them, when you didn’t run into folks multiboxing 10 accounts to farm you… that kind of fun masks a lot of fundamental game design problems. But when the newness wears off, and all those listed issues become not only possible but common - well then, at that point you have to confront the actual game mechanics flaws, or just keep slapping bandaids on until the patient bleeds to death.

Here’s another tip: “EVE is boring because hi-sec is too safe” doesn’t even class as a bandaid issue. It’s only an issue to a small group of risk-averse PvPers who want easy targets, but don’t want to be targets themselves.

[M_Cincinnatus]

@zazzmatazz_Xu

I just want to understand the stance, high sec hasn’t really changed, if people are leaving the game it’s not high sec that’s doing it, I would say that it is like anything, the party can only go on so long and like the movie groundhog day it becomes mundane, only few old vets are still around, and the one’s incoming don’t have the same vision or excitement for a space game, the frontier has become common place and there are more choices on how you can experience this frontier

I can agree here. It’s pure speculation on the cause and effects of high sec activity. Only CCP would possibly have any data on that, and even for them, as for any business pouring over tons of data, it would likely be just an educated guess.

It could be something internal to the game, such as high sec criminals have perhaps become too organized, and high sec residents adapted accordingly by taking safer actions. This could also fall back on CCP due to a past over-correction.

Or external factors may be involved, such as increased competition in the gaming industry. There are now games that have dominated the market to the point that companies in separate sectors of entertainment like Netflix considers them competition for people’s leisure time. How does EVE, having always been a niche game, even compete with something like that, especially since universities are now cranking out game developers like crazy, and there are probably more games out there than a person can possibly play in a lifetime.

Or perhaps it’s all the above, the result of which would mean few newer players, leaving only older experienced players already wise on how to deal with criminals in high sec.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Kezrai_Charzai

So, back to the question, which you’ve been dodging for a while now: since 85% of the systems in EVE are wide open for PvP, why is it that ‘PvPers’ such as yourself keep blaming the problems of EVE on high sec PvP?

• Pvp requires players. 70% of which are in hisec. The vast majority of space holds a tiny amount of players.
• Rewards need risk as balance, which hisec is lacking. Rewards gained in hisec affect the rewards gained from all other areas. Making it a ‘safe zone’ fundamentally undermines the player driven market.
• Engagement needs interactions, especially amongst new players. Hisec discourages interactions and more and more encourages isolation.
• Null was changed after player activity drop. Hi-sec pvp was fundamentally changed shortly before player drops.
• Hi-sec pvp has been repeatedly nerfed with the push of ‘it will increase player retention’, but has never increased player retention by any measurable amount. In fact it seems to have the opposite effect.
• We know that there is a correlation between players that get shot at and players that are sticking around longer.

[Solstice_Projekt]

@M_Cincinnatus

Did you really deduce that? And how if I may ask?

1. His discord name.
2. And suddenly...three new community reps! - EVE General Discussion - EVE Online Forums

I don’t usually do homework about “officials”. I should have.
CCP Falcon founded Veto Corp. Holy ■■■■, I had no ■■■■■■■ idea!

@CCP_Falcon Can I call you CCP Verone from now on??

[Relvara]

@Daichi_Yamato

Players are bored and un-engaged. Whether you like it or not, that is a far cry from the pvp centric eve of the past.

Because Eve is empty and content-less
Loooong time ago Eve was one raare space MMO and practicly there was no competition, lots of players went to Eve and tried it. That was Eve “Golden Age” when New Eden was full. PVPers had lots of targets and have time of their life.
BUT other people are critical, saw empty and boring game and stop investing time and money in EVE. They go futher in search for better games, only die har fanboys stay in Eve for all this years.
You say this you say that but you not relevat to say why people leave you are here you do not leave you do not know why people leave, that is question that CCP must ask to people who leaved!

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@Relvara

Because Eve is empty and content-less

That describes your posts better than it describes Eve.

Begone foul troll, go back to whatever rock you crawled out from under.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

Content that you don’t like is still content, no content would mean that there would be nothing to like, or dislike.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

Yeah, but no.

An average of 22000 concurrent logins over the last week says that you’re wrong; there’s plenty of content, and plenty of players.

If there was no content, no one would play the game.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@Relvara

few exceptions

22000 is not a few…

By several orders of magnitude.

[Lumukanda_Theleraese]

Relvara, you seem to have an unhealthy fixation with the game, it’s staff as well as the player base. Maybe it’s time to step back and take a break for a bit.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

Try 189 alts, this is one of the few that doesn’t have LSG in the name; most of them are on a holiday from the forum.

[Lumukanda_Theleraese]

Just an observation as it seems to be a vendetta of sorts and not healthy that’s all. Whatever floats your boat and all that.

[Relvara]

The subscription I paid for Eve gives me the right to write here anything I want, CCP take my money and now I’ll give my opinion for free

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@Relvara

The subscription I paid

I thought you were unsubscribed…

[Relvara]

@Jonah_Gravenstein

I thought you were unsubscribed…

Yes I did but I stil have case and original CD, CCP did not refund me, my money is in CCP and now my words goes same way…

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@Relvara

CCP did not refund me

That isn’t how a subscription works.

The subscription business model is a business model in which a customer must pay a recurring price at regular intervals for access to a product or service.

If CCP didn’t allow alpha status you wouldn’t be posting at all. That you’ve paid a subscription in the past isn’t the reason that allows you to post on the forums now.

TL;DR You can post on the forums because CCP allow you to, they can remove that privilege at will.

[Valerie_Valate]

@Jonah_Gravenstein

Try 189 alts, this is one of the few that doesn’t have LSG in the name; most of them are on a holiday from the forum.

LSG ? You know what the story is with this numbnut ?

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

Everyone from this corp that has posted on the forums has turned out to be an alt of one or two individuals, Relvara is just the latest incarnation of a long line of alts with a hatred of Eve and a particular hardon for CCP Falcon.