CCP - Need to look at neutral bumping alts

PvP Gameplay Center Warfare & Tactics
107

The MJD idea did come to mind after the fact; however, this would still possibly guarantee at least one lost ship, if not more. Logi cannot fit an MJD, and the DPS would have had to refit, meaning that they could keep one bumped out while we warped to a station to refit. It would have been useful during the trip back to jspace, for sure.

There is also the matter of bumping during the fight, which thankfully they executed poorly. They had 3, which if they’d been co-ordinated and a bit more skilled, they could have also easily done. If they’d ‘pinged’ us off the station, then used another ship to bump again, they’d have easily gotten some kills during the actual structure bash. I know this works as I’ve used it in past fights to keep the other dudes off their citadel and keep em outta tether range.

MJDs during the bash would have been suicidal considering the range of citadels, and the lack of MJD on logi.

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108

One option is to move your fleet of ships safely in a bowhead. Bowhead if flown properly aligns into warp in 10 seconds and can be even quicker by webbing it. So maybe move your fleet into position that way to a station to stage out of… then undock from there using an insta undock bookmark to arrive at your intended location.

Battleships with an AB are difficult to bump.

Depending on your fleet comp and fitting, I’d disagree. But let’s say the comp you want to use isn’t ideal for MJD’ing around - this is a good argument for command destroyers being able to MJD in Highsec! Something I’ve lobbied for to create interesting and dynamic fleet engagements.

Also there are fleet comps that aren’t easily made vulnerable with bumping that are available for you to use.

109

No. Don’t use it, but not frightened by the possibility. Keep the tears up though.

Unitended in CCP’s view is “emergent” and once it occurs, they decide if it’s an OK use of something they didn’t see, or an exploit and then notify everyone and patch it out.

In the case of bumping, it’s specifically not an exploit in CCP’s eyes. They recently changed the mechanics to prevent indefinite low-risk bumping, which is fine, but they also still see bumping, even in highsec war situations, as ok.

Shoot the bumping ship. You have every ability to deliver consequences for the choice to bump.

However, of course, you aren’t prepared to face the consequences of doing so, so instead you are crying here and asking for the game to be changed.

110

I’ll just leave this here. “Shooting back” is the stupidest ■■■■■■■ answer you have spewed out.

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111

Also I actually took the time to read your complaints and I stopped when I read ”overpropped omens” LMAO.

If you choose not to adapt your fleet in any way to counter this you def won’t put in the tiny amount of effort to counter-bump them.

An Omen fitted like that is going to need a LARGE runway to build speed enough to bump a battleship 50k. Any amount of movement will cause the Omen to whiff. Sounds like you intend on brawling stationary and this your refusal to adapt is laughable. Like the easiest solution here is to move a LITTLE or you could even have your own bump to collide into them well before they are able to hit your ships.

Please correct me if I’m wrong about any of the above.

112

The bowhead bit… is a bit much. I don’t think we had anyone on that run that could (or would) fly a bowhead, and the risk of losing the bowhead during active chase is very high even if any one of us owned one.
We used MWD on our battleships which is how we cozied up so easily, and pulsing it when people got aimed in was how we prevented them from getting really good bumps as it blooms the mass and inertia. Being from Jspace we understand MJD/AB mechanics a bit more than most :stuck_out_tongue:
The main issue was during extraction.

However, neither point really matters much to me is the simple fact that using OoC alts in a way that affects the war-decced parties, and with a 0-sum risk (retaliation = CONCORD, lack of retaliation = losing ships) vs reward (enemy lost a ship, plus possible loot).

This is precisely why they removed OoC logi and fleet boosting. It’s time they looked at bumping (in this specific case) with the same regard.

mostly cleared just above this. Though, in testing, I’ve been able to hit what I aim at with the fit they used. Any misses on stuff was 'cause they can’t fly well. Sure, if you hit approach, you’ll whiff hard. But manual piloting with knowledge of where they’re facing, makes it trivial.

**I’ll add that I’m doing this off my rocker on pain-meds, with a trackball I’m using since my main hand is out of commission from shoulder surgery–don’t ever mess up your shoulder it SUCKS ASS.

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113

#1 use a neutral alt

Why is putting forth effort “a bit much”? I give you a solution to the gate issue and you dismiss it as if you shouldn’t have to put that much effort into it. Being that you are war eligible does no one in your group have a neutral bowhead pilot?

Next thing we know you’ll be complaining about how wars are dumb because you lose your in Corp haulers.

Let’s remove neutral alts as scouts and warpins
Let’s remove ACLs
Let’s remove neutral haulers
Let’s remove the fleet hangar from DSTs

There are these plus MANY more “unfair” ways a neutral can involve itself relatively risk free in the game. The thing here is that Eve Online is a game that rewards the most knowledgeable, best prepared, and those most willing to adapt. If you’re expecting a different experience out of ANY area of the game then clearly you are blind.

This is hardly a game breaking issue as I’ve presented you with multiple methods for dealing with it, not to mention its biggest glaring weakness.

Also how the ■■■■ do you FC a fleet and see a neutral bumper and warp the fleet off leaving a guy behind? If you can out-rep the enemy damage then you can have your fleet align and hold grid long enough for the bump timer to kick in and thus warp away… or you know fight them on the gate?

114

Haven’t ever lost a DST, or any hauler to war dec. Also, I have 0 issues with wardecs in general.
Your assumption that every group has a freighter pilot is a bit pretentious.
Scouts haven’t been mentioned.
ACL’s aren’t strong enough, they need to switch the entire system to ACLs and stop with the title crap.
Neutral haulers are legit, they don’t affect active fighting, and in a war you just get info and start blapping them – as it is worth it then.
As long as the overall cargo size doesn’t change, I’d love that proposal as then the freakin’ cargo expander would serve a purpose (though I’d likely still not use them cause cloak-trick is a thing).
If they remove cloak-tricking, just swap for fat tank and MJD. 136K EHP can survive a lot of tornados :stuck_out_tongue:

Unfair is one thing, the OoC alt bumping thing is effectively the same as OoC logi, or OoC boosting, as it affects an active fight in a real and obvious way.

115

Not going to get in a pissing match of opinions. Truth is I’ve presented you with solid methods to deal with the issue despite you calling for nerds before even asking other how to deal with it. Your first reaction is to cry to CCP.

So I take the time to be a little snarky but overall helpful with honest advice. You dismiss it because despite solid methods for countering you just don’t like it or don’t like that you should have to adapt.

We get threads like this weekly where people complain about something before consulting solutions… I’ve tried to help you and see that any further posting is a waste of time. Should you take the initiative to try any of the methods I’ve presented please let me know how it works and how they adapt to your adapting.

Adapt or die

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116

Only because as a carebear you lack the willingness to do it. You’d rather cry for the game to be changed, because bumping should only be valid for the situations that you personally think so; and not possible otherwise.

Typical, gutless whiner.

117

I’ve actually not 100% dismissed the ideas. While my opinion is that it is still a broken mechanic that should be patched in some way is still there, I did infact agree that the things you said were valid in several regards.
Admittedly, if we’d known that OoC bumping was a thing, and that they’d likely chase us around afterwards, we could have docked somewhere, brought a Nestor, or some other means of refitting, and swapped to MJDs once we were done bashing the structure. The MJD would likely have allowed any Leshes bumped to be able to realign during the trip home. As I had stated, the MJD idea did cross my mind shortly afterwards.

As for on-grid during the fight, pulse MWD or AB when they’re lined up for a bump and it’s generally not an issue, unless they have several of them and they’re actually good. Then it’s still an issue. Even with MWD on, they can get 15-20km bumps, and 3 of those easily takes the BS out of logi range.

All of that said, OoC alt Logi and Boosting was removed because it was something that is easily done, low effort, and 0-sum risk, as the goal is to remove the enemy’s pieces from the board. If they retaliated against the logi or booster, the cops come curbstomp them. If they don’t, there is a possibility that they die because logi and boosters are a huge thing in a fight.
The same thing can be said of OoC bowling ships. They can easily move pieces around the board without a risk equal to the reward. I don’t ask for removal of bumping. Bumping is a valid tactic. I just ask that there be something done in regard to OoC bumping, in high-sec, against a party actively participating in a war. At least in a way that doesn’t allow me to melt their face, as we now can with logi and boosters.

Since a ‘bump counter’ or other mechanic is a non-trivial thing to actually implement in a way that can’t be abused like hell, I proposed that unless you’re in one of the war-target parties, that you ‘phase through’. That is a fairly simple to implement solution as it can be a simple conditional programmatically, and wouldn’t affect any other use of bumping – can still knock freighters off align, etc.

In low/null/jspace, retaliation is an actual option that doesn’t require people to have multiple accounts, with an OoC alt to act as a freighter pilot / counter high-sec gank ship, or monitor / head space to handle running multiple logi/DPS and non-combat toons at one time, and so on.

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118

when your solution to a problem relies on “more of that problem”, then you have a slight hing it’s imbalanced and unhealthy.

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119

Everyone who is present on the grid during the timer should automatically get suspect flag and keep it until leaves the grid. Leaving the grid should start suspect timer countdown.
That would stop risk-free nonsense of: neutral bumpers, neutral warp-in points, neutral looters, neutral DSTs with cap boosters and neutral Bowheads to hide expensive ships when things go wrong…
That should be much easier to implement than detecting collisions and give clear and consistent experience - if someone wants to participate in the ongoing battle must take into account the risk of being shot.

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121

That is a really cool idea! I would say it will at least need an undocking warning, a one minute grace period for those undocking, as well as a 30 second grace period for those who just warped in.

Without those, the propensity for abuse is too high. Even with those there may be too much potential for abuse.

122

I too would like the ability to drop a station anywhere I like and have everyone on the grid permanently flagged so I can shoot them. I can think of many gates where I would love to have a highsec gatecamp 23/7.

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123

Not quite /7, as the structure would rep up during the DT after the timer starts. But yeah, great idea. Set a structure on grid with a trade route gate, apply enough DPS to stop the repair and let every freighter, T1 hauler and anything else travelling through on grid go suspect while keeping the grid active for as long as possible. Kill everything on the gate and take the loot. CONCORD free.

Rinse, repeat for timer after timer.

+1 for the idea @Stanislaw_Borewicz and @Renly_Rohan

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124

This is why I like people that propose silly ideas. They never think further than their noses.

I agree… they need to implement their idea right now. Jita gate in Peri, Soba, New Caldari will never be the same again. It will be awesome.

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125

ObViOuSlY iT wOuLdNt WoRk ExAcTlY lIkE tHaT!! cCp WiLl FiX aNy LoOpHoLeS!!

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126

Obviously,

But we are trolling two people that love their crappy ideas on the forums.

127

Haha I was being ironic and mocking them. That sort of thing is exactly what some idiot with blind faith in CCP would say.