IDK how I feel anymore about it… Ive been trying to achieve a solo duo dread farming goal of mine for years but have not been able to make it happen and seemingly everyday that window of opportunity is getting smaller. ccp makes it more and more difficult to solo, need several accounts to do it, so I buy more accounts. by the time i get the skills groups have organized to such a capacity it makes it undesirable to even play, they simply wait for you to undock and make some money… that is the game of course. so you all do win, cause i dont even wanna ■■■■■■■ play anymore. with such strict requirements and expensive ships, you all had me chasing a dream that left me broke and then you complain and make fun of me when i cant afford the next new meta or some ■■■■. its more than unfair, its rediculous I continue to play, but i dont play for you. it seemed like a dream come true on sisi and maybe thats the best it will ever get because in eve, there are assholes everywhere, irl and in eve, who just want to take your ■■■■ and break it. and with that, eve isn’t fun. alphas can do what it took months to train paying for… eve is now dead, wh space is now dead, the meta is boring and predictable. But it has been fun cause i did get to do all the ■■■■ i couldnt even dream of. cheers for the memories. hopefully ccp fucks wh space up even more and the absurd large groups will continue to rake in the isk with the ever more difficult gameplay consequence for smaller groups or solo players… either way, alphas change the game,… and i need not chase the dream of making dank isk to fund my accounts. I guess i should be relieved but tbh i miss eve and what had been achieved. i will miss it for a long time.
Oh wormholes community, please never ever change.
People doing pve in high class wh seem constantly saying that dreads are the way to to it when using capitals solo.
I still have not had the change to catch one doing the sites solo in a dread though.
and thats the way it should be…
I think the wormhole community need to stop complaining about how sleeper sites work because when CCP change stuff, they ■■■■ it up!
Instead, we should be asking CCP to add new and interesting stuff like new T3 ships and a real reason/benefit to put up the new moon mining arrays.
Yep, I’ve only once even ‘seen’ a dread in a C5 site and it got into warp before we could bubble…
I guess it’s C6’s that are mainly being done with dreads?
All we see are MJD fitted battleships that are about as easy to tackle as feather in a hurricane!
Z E R O C O N T E N T
Ironic, I just caught a snuffed out Revelation soloing a c5 the other night… lol … told him he better get a scout on the hole ha. he didnt reply, couldnt imagine why. 
As far as the sleeper sites themselves, I really dont have anything to complain on. They are fun for me to run and I enjoy seeking c3 sites still… c4 sites are a blast and always the most challenege tho, for me. I do feel though, the value you get from the sites could increase a bit… at least the higher class wh… with the escalations… yea. it seems a bit low for risking caps, if thats how you run them… i get people are lazy and want to set up a bot or automated system for isk milking… i dont agree ccp should remove these systems… in fact i wish they would leave them alone or allow some liquiding opportunities… I found an officer spawn finally in Sansha null sec, that was a nice payout. but how RARE is it you would come across that amount of isk so easily in such little time? took me two malstroms and about 3 minutes to kill the spawn. what Im saying is the isk making is low, for the risk and no there is no content because there is nothing out there worth risking 10 bil in caps for…
so i can see what isk lord is saying, and i agree, though i think other changes to the game could also effect this outcome.
If you are only able to hunt a target, that’s 5 minutes sitting around, then I slowly understand your problem with PvP…It’s not the Sleepersites.
Aah, i geuss you like arranged fights more then?
What a wombat… haha
On Citadel farming
I never got it why anything in eve should stay inv while aggressing at the same time.
POS was better mechanic for wh anyways…who was it requesting that fancy “LetsDoWHRentSov” with no fueling cit ■■■■?
Pos mechanic was terrible for wh’s except seeing people on d-scan when they were in the shield.
The only thing that needs an urgent fix is the farming of sleepers with upwell structures, that stuff needs to die.
Funnily enough we killed 13 capitals in a weekend a few weeks ago. They were pretty much all found ratting.
Jumping capitals in sleeper sites is a great way to get a fight. Many groups who farm are PvPers who will of course fight to the man to save their capitals. More caps in sites = more fights. Simple logic…
Risk averse farmers who don’t want to fight may of course die in a fire if they are jumped but that’s the risk you take. The rewards may need bumping up to what they were a few years ago (i.e. ~700m for a C5 site instead of ~500m). I mean, everything is more expensive in eve now including PLEX. Why are sleeper sites worth less? Makes no sense.
Right now citadel farming is just about the safest way you can make ISK in eve online. Zero risk and provides zero opportunity for content. So let’s put the risk back and the rewards back?
The solution is simple:
- Stop drifters mindlessly warping on grid with citadels and staying there to get shot so some lazy person can scoop 300m with zero risk.
- Force players to keep ships on grid whether capitals or subcaps. Make the sleeper tackles scrams not disuptors so that MJDs don’t work.
- Ideally put pack proper capital escalations for the big bucks.
I don’t blame wormholers for exploiting this design flaw, but CCP need to fix it fast. Having acknowledged that this is a design flaw and admitted that it is ‘undesirable’, I think we’re long overdue a quick fix???
I also don’t see why drifters only attack the BIGGEST sig ship on grid. If they are the bosses surely they have some intelligence? I’d like to see some better AI here. Make this a worthy foe not some mindless meat shield that takes ages to grind down. Yawn…
Do CCP realise how many of these we have to grind down to make our ISK in game? Please make it more challenging! Keep us awake!! 
Personally, I’d remove drifters altogether or integrate them into something more challenging that would benefit the use of each capital class. I want to see carriers do something useful in w-space with their fighters, I want to see FAXes on grid in sites, and yeah dreads too!
Come on CCP… there’s a great opportunity here! Please free up some dev time for your loving customers.
You’re flogging a dead horse. A “quick fix” got us into this and will not get us out.
CCP got us into this. Had they asked the advice of experienced wormholers then they would never have made the escalation changes in this way.
So this is your chance Rek Seven - how would YOU fix it?
This is the EvE Online Forums right?
Everyone knows this is badly broken. So speak up here!
I don’t disagree with the fact that there was an increased chance of finding capital ships before and that this was really fun sometimes… but CCP made the change because the community and our CSM rep were complaining that the sites were too easily run by groups with a large cap force and that the PVE content had become too boring/predictable. What we have now is CCP’s “quick fix” solution.
Whether or not you think it is worthwhile rolling for a couple battleships is relative to the size of your group and i suspect CCP would much rather have wormhole space full of small gangs looking for other small groups to kill, that a 20+ man gang sat on their arses rolling wormholes until a cap falls into their laps.
I think the current system has issues that we would all like to see ironed out but i don’t want CCP to rush into more changes when there are much more important and sustainable features they could make.
What we need is to encourage more people to move into wormhole space to fill up all those empty systems out there, by broadening the appeal of wormhole space. This could be achieved through the following steps:
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Ensure that moon mining in wormhole space is worthwhile doing. This will result in more rorquals being flown in space and result in more opportunities for fights when an array is under attack.
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Introduce a Tech 3 industrial that can do many things including the ability to mine gas twice as well as a venture. This would take us back to the days when there were valuable ships to be killed in gas sites rather that the ridiculous 1m isk, 2+ warp strength, insta warp frigates we have now.
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Add wormhole space only moon goo that will be used to make the T3 industrial. This would allow CCP to further increase the value of systems, resulting in more fights over those systems.
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By the time the above is implemented, the new NPC AI should be complete which would be the time to change how sleepers and drifters work in an effort to make PVE more interesting.
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Add escalations to all class of wormholes which are dependant on the type and number of ships you use. To be clear, i’m not suggesting you can get C6 escalations in a C1 wormhole if you use a cap - rather that you would get an escalation unique to a C1 by warping in a battleship for example.
In short, we need a real wormhole expansions, instead of poorly thought out tweaks.
exactly
I agree that the old sleeper escalations were predictable, but we can say the same of all PvE in EvE Online. CCP have indicated an interest in making all site running more dynamic across EVE (i.e. the waves will perhaps be randomized, have variable AI behavior in any given site, and require a more fluid approach to completing them). Is this hot air or something that could happen? Who knows!
I think the challenge in wormhole space is magnified. If you live in any given class or farm any given class of wormhole you end up doing the same 8 sites (4x anoms plus 4x relic/data). Repetition is what makes it dull whether you do escalations or grind a drifter. I think CCP and the player base recognize that the underlying challenge is to revamp PvE across EvE. This would mean building it from the ground up starting with the development tools. What CCP Devs have to work with is antiquated and sooo very slooooow to use as I understand things.
I agree entirely that CCP misguidedly tried to ‘address’ the repetitious aspect of escalations. All they achieved was to kill content by reducing the number of caps in sites, reduce rewards per hour increasing the amount of time players have to spend on boring ISK grinding sessions, and overall making wormhole space less desirable for both PvPers and PvEers. Hence fewer players logging into EvE to play wormholes and fewer subscriptions. Poor choices like this no doubt must have hurt CCP’s bottom line.
I would dearly like to see the entire PvE structure overhauled for EvE. The CCP Devs would too. I think for those at CCP who control the development roadmap and budget it may be hard to evaluate the ROI for such a huge development task.
I personally think it would help CCP financially. As a wormhole space leader of many years, I know how much effort goes into recruitment, content creation, and managing a corp. We keep our members interested by seeking out PvP content, but the players need to do their ISK grinding to fund PvP. If we can make the ISK-making more enjoyable I am absolutely confident we’d see lower player churn due to inactives and players just getting bored and dropping off the radar. Before all the trolls pop up here, all corp and all leadership know what I am talking about. Every w-space group has the same daily challenges. Leaders want to build enjoyable EVE Online groups, and their work helps retain player subscriptions. Imho CCP need to understand the player experience a lot better in order to grow subscriptions. They are going in the right direction with citadels (and moon mining I guess is all part of the POS replacement thing). But PvE has to be higher on the agenda.
If a complete overhaul of PvE is not coming any time soon, CCP should at the very least STOP citadel farming of drifters. This is probably a few lines of code. So a quick fix here is realistic and desperately needed now (not next week).
Once this is fixed, and if no overhaul of PvE is imminent put back cap escalations in some form or another. I doubt redesigning the cap escalation side of high end sites would be that huge a project. It might amount to just 3 different escalation spawns (one for each cap ship type and geared specifically to that type). These would be the same for C5 and C6 sites.
We all agree we need these changes… CCP just need to listen to what the community want and to prioritize them.
For the record, I think most players think mining is also repetitive and incredibly dull. There is nothing exciting about sitting in a mining ship doing nothing. If CCP were to combine some more challenging PvE with moon mining in w-space - sleepers to fight all the time then yeah that might be fun. But afk-mining is so pointless. It’s about as interesting as PI without the warping and the headache of setting it up. Dull dull dull…
I think every wormholer I have spoken to would like to see T3 moon goo as a USP for W-Space. This would need to be balanced with the amount pulled from PvE sleeper sites, but I guess no matter how a player goes about ISK making they can only make so much per hour (provided it is not afk-mining).
Again, as an underlying point - if there is to be moon mining in w-space please let’s make it high risk and high reward. Help bring daily content for PvPers and make it worthwhile enough to farm even with losses. We want cat and mouse, big ISK and lots of ship explosions!
Players want ISK-making that challenges us and keeps us hungry for more! Is this so much to ask?
You are right on the PvE View. PvE is boring. Sleepersites are boring. But I think you overrate the impact on PvP.
In 2015 the Top 10 Corps shot about 11.479b ISK in 2016 11.750 and in 2017 ytd 11.222b ISK in WH Space.
I absolutely agree that we need more Player in WH Space. New Sites, New Loot, New Industry or maybe new LvL4 Missions or DED Sites that lead you to WH space would be great. But the thing about C5/6 Sites is only the ISK thing for a few Corps and many Alt Corps. We saw more new Players in the Sites with Rattles than the old guys before.
And I definitly agree to the issue with the drifter Killing by citadels.