CCP Please Revamp C5/C6 Sites

Exploration Gameplay Center Wormhole Space
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I believe PvE has a direct and indirect impact on PvP.

The direct impact is obvious but falls into 2 areas:

1). If players have to risk ships in sites and are temporarily ‘tethered’ to the site, for want of a better word, then hunters have more of a window to engage them. Sometimes this will be a gank and sometimes the farmers will bring help which results in a proper fight. Ships are currently ‘untethered’: MJDs on battleships provide easy escape, and cap ships are not needed to run the escalations so no 5 minute siege cycles.

2). If players find sleeper sites boring they don’t log on or just do them as little as possible. This means that players are not risking ships because they’re just not in the sites. More players in sites means more potential PvP targets or ‘something to fight over’.

The indirect impact:

1). PvE should be one of the most common daily activities in w-space for ISK-making. If it’s dull then players don’t want to do it. If players log on for any reason at all (i.e. PvE) it increases the chances of them finding PvP content through general game play - rolling a hole, scanning a system for sites, etc etc. Activity = PvP potential.

2). If players continually find PvE dull they may in fact not log on at all, may go inactive, leave wormhole space, or leave the game. All of these outcomes mean fewer subscriptions in w-space. We therefore get fewer encounters and fewer engagements month on month. More subscriptions in w-space = more PVP.

So there is a bigger picture here than just hitting someone doing a site…

The die hard PvP wormholer will always log on. But there is also a large number of players who become disenchanted with wormhole life - ‘churn’ if you like. They either log on infrequently - may be waiting for PvP pings or to do PI, or maybe they just go inactive or leave w-space.

I believe fun, challenging and rewarding PvE is the lifeblood of W-Space (or should be!). Central to that is designing high risk and high reward sites, where players have to use quick thinking, deft ship control, and collaborate in a multi-player effort in the high end sites.

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I think capital sites should pay more… and tbh IDK why the fleet hangers on dreads dont allow three guns to be stored… come on ccp. its not logical to only be able to refit half of your ships capacity or capability. remember, you are trying to get me to risk more on the field… i need some ■■■■■■■ incentive man… the pvp groups that are tuned and well experienced, would love it if more risk is on the field. and why cant i get 4 passes thru the capital whs? A c5/c6 static only allows three total passes. leaving farmers stuck using one dread… f you want to give more incentive to pvprs, perhaps make it four… so dumbass farmers like me who want to risk it… can get two dreads in and out for a farm day trip. thats right. I want more lifetime mass on the statics in c5 and c6 whs… just enough to get 2 dreads in and out back home. this is kinda like shorting us with m3 on th fleet hanger so we can only fit 2 out of 3 guns to refit. :frowning: and yea, an increase in capital payout would be nice. ccp, what ever you do, make sure you dont ruin it for those have 4 accounts who want to solo with alts when its quite.

isky is right. an increase in pay out would give more incentive for farmers to risk capitals. the capital sites could be improved to make it a little more challenging but keep it so folks can solo with an alt or three. and please correct the logic on the m3… it doenst make sense to not be able to refit a complete fit. wtf. AND yea dude let me get two nags in and out of my static safely… it would be a nice addition to wh life, i think it would increase the chance pvprs would find farmers… it will increase the reward for farmers to risk it in teh first place.

pos’s were cool, i still want a pos system… i like being able to deploy a safe house within an hour of finding an empty wh system i wish to exploit for the day and move on. I dont want to move in and risk a bil and half for a citadel… not EVERYONE that plays eve is in an organization that wants to stay stationary in one system. if you remove pos. fine. just replace the function of a fast deploy safe where im invulnerable to take a ■■■■ while farming in someone elses wh or an empty wh.

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That is done intentionally so you have to warp in your DST alt and refit from it.

Those modules being so large was done so you can’t simply drop a Depot and refit from cap combat to high angles, which was abused significantly.

also Citadels are like POSes with more privacy, and unlimited size ship maintenance hangers, and stuff from the player storage module will actually lootfairy out. They are a significant improvement from the perspective of players using them to store crap.

I just would like engineering complexes and refineries to be unable to share the same grid. it is unnecessarily hard to catch indy ships warping from one to the other when they see the saber uncloak and drop a bubble on their overview.
They should be forced to train D-scan to V like the rest of the W-space residents.

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this is retarded when you are allowed two of the guns but not a third… lmao sorry it makes no sense to me to have it that way. abused? how? how is 2x guns not abuse but 3x is … really? lmao where else in the game is this function unfair…?

Not all use a mobile depot. when you SB it hurts the depot… so why use one? solo? yea you need sb… and a depot. so it makes no sense here.

dual dreads? i dont need a depot. I can refit off the other dread. thing is I still want three guns… wtf? I got a way to do with two dreads… I can fit one dread all cap guns. the other is CAP guns with 2x HAW in fleet and the third in teh second dread fleet hanger. so this is bull ■■■■… cause if anyone has more than one dread, you can refit with three HAW guns. I dont see how this restriction actually prohibits abuse of refitting a COMPLETE fit. and who the ■■■■ bring a DST into a site so a dread can refit… lol im sorry… thats just funny to me. I keep a dst in safe maybe, or logged off maybe… but im not warping the dread out of a site to refit to warp back in then to continue the site. no. makes ZERO logic to me. once you warp in to the site you should be able to stay the whole time on grid. you shold be able to refit like any other captial can… a one gun restriction doesnt do much imo but piss me off or make me fit cargo expanders on my dread lmao

as for sitting inbetween two citadels trying to catch prey., is pretty lazy dont ya think? I mean grabbing the low fruit I can understand but maybe youre not supposed to be able to catch AT THE KEYBOARD prey moving assets from one state of invulnerability to another… ie from tether to tether…

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Imustbecomfused, I think you are in a minority as a solo ‘day-tripper’ farmer of high end sites. I guess CCP should always allow for this type of short stay farming in some fashion. However I think encouraging players to set up camp permanently is more desirable.

Whether or not you can refit dread guns is kinda off topic though. Personally, I don’t think you should be able to refit any of the larger capital ship sized modules outside a citadel. I’m just imagining the practicality of it - each gun is probably the size of a cruiser. A smaller (rapid deployment) citadel to replace POSes ought to cover your day-tripper needs for this. I hope to see this materialize in game soon. They should be pretty easy to attack though and have only 2 vulnerability stages. But again… off topic here.

Anyone else got views on the citadel farming problem? Or ideas for revamping the high end escalations?

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This thread is cancerous as hell, why did i feel the urge to look on forums tonight…

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I agree with the suggestion that dreads should be able to hold a full set of their alternative weapons and that the mass should be reduced to allow 4 cap jumps through C5/C6 wormholes.

People should be encouraged to farm their static rather than in the safety of their home.

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Yea man, I know Im kinda in that minority of day trippers. :confused: My goal was always to be self sufficient in a way I dont have to play hours and hours everyday just to play eve online. I think my patience has worn thin, its been almost a decade. I would really love to see a rapid deployment citadel of structure of SOME kind that can provide that temporary shelter yea, that would be so rad!! lol…

as for the guns, I guess a solo dread op has to have limitations for some reason, I dont fully understand. Im not sure why two guns vs three guns even makes the difference? IDK why people feel 3x guns refit is abuse or whatnot. I just havent the experience in those situations I suppose to know why its a problem or should be avoided.

Ive not used citadel for farming but i did attempt on sisi, and i didnt couldnt get the drifters to follow me to the customs office once i attacked them. I do admit, i did not commit though and I got bored and said this sucks… lol … tbh id rather dual box dreads and 2 cycle c5 sites… taking the risk i suppose. Maybe citadels should simply not be able to lock and target npc?

as for revamping the c5/c6 sites… idk. I have yet to get myself where i want to be, familiar enough with them in the first place, let alone suggest how i think they could be improved. not sure im much help there. you mentioned scrams tho and not disruptors… that could be a nice addition. Also, making the sites spawn locations random… so you cant assume they come from the one location every time you run the site.?

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Well… There is a change between c5 and c6 about pvp, seems there is fewer c6 and after living in wh for many years, after scouting many c6, the result is : indeed most of the c6 are own by hk, some of the corps I saw, looking at their killboard, seems to be or renters or solo guys farming their hole (dual boxing or more).

The c6 is and was to me like the top of the pop wh, the last objectif of a wh life after living trough all wh class, starting humble and finishing in beauty (still humble, we are a small corp), respecting at the same time the natural progression of a wh pilote. But… but…

The c6 is a bit new to us, after the c5. We see strong well organized corp, alliance, even coalitions who chain collapse to hunt and who are ready to kill caps. Is it Bob, is it odds ? But we never saw so many combat probs and collapse behind in c6 than in c5. PvP hunt seems intensiv in c6 (it is also in c5 but we got less c6 in space, right, 113 only)

And the huge desapointement about the difficulty to make them, and money. The difference between c5 and c6 is weird. Only the bastion is really up compare to the c5. Core Citadels looks like a c5 Core Garrison . No many difference. We don’t use any trick such astra farming and are ready for pvp content but I don’t know, maybe I was expecting more compare to c5.

I love the idea given here to make escallation in lower wh classe, or maybe to rethink the waves of sleepers, who could triger different waves regarding the number of ships on the field. More you have, harder the site can be. I can’t speak about known space, I did only maybe 3 months there, but yeah, there is, in my opinion, something to create.

The jump between c4 (lived in c4 for 2 years) and c5 in isk is huge. The population is also different but we met them in lower wh class. But the jump between c5 and c6 is absolutly not the same. And yes the new escal is more friendly for non cap pilotes, witch is good and is what push more pilotes / corp to go in high class. Even if the escalation is actually ridiculous in money/time, we do them. Pvp is expensiv and high class wh is definitly good for pvp corps (if you are a bit communist :heart:).

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tl;dr

“I’m a leet PVPer and I want it to be easier to get shiny kills… also fk PVEers.”

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(Disclaimer: this post is entirely fictitious, not quoting CCP, RL people, players, aliens, or fluffy animals)

Mr and Mrs PvE
I would like sites to be more challenging/fun and rewarding, and yes I’d be happier to take bigger risks for more return. PvE is so dull anyway I usually feel like a hampster in a wheel. If I can spend less time doing PvE that would be nice, and I’d be happy losing a few cap ships along the way - I wont cry, and if I make more ISK and spend less time doing it, I’m a happy bunny! :rabbit:

Mr and Mrs PvP
Well I also do escalation sites, so the above applies to me too! I’m a leet PvPer and badarse - just saying… Yeah it would be great to see capital ships in C5 and C6 sites again so we have the chance to fight them. Sometimes the site runners might beat us off and get away, other days we might take a few caps down and get some shiny loot. If we engage caps belonging to a PvP group they will always try to rescue them, so we’re guaranteed a good fight without a Mexican standoff or waiting 30 mins for numbers. Spontaneous fights are always fun! I love fights… I am a leet PvPer! :rocket:

Mr and Mrs Citadel Farmer
So yeah I have set up my farm hole… yawn… I take zero risk and my citadel kills the drifters for 300m each. It’s easy as pie, but yeah boring as hell. I’m amazed CCP haven’t fixed this yet. What mugs! I remember the old escalations and they produced a lot more content. I do like my easy ISK with no risk, but if I’m honest there’s no fun in it. Should I keep quiet about it in the hope CCP don’t notice? Or can I see the bigger picture, and realize I could be making way more ISK in a more fun way, and get lots more player versus player fights? Hmmmm! Am I too scared of change? Don’t make me changggeeee!!! :zipper_mouth_face:

Mr and Mrs CCP
Yeah we broke capital escalations… not even sure why we did it? Anyone remember? Oh yeah, to nurf ISK making in wormholes. We need folks to buy PLEX and SUBs after all. Pity we didn’t realize so many players would leave game because of this - oopsey! What do we do now? Throw more good Dev time after bad and try to fix citadel farming? Well we should do that at least… but maybe we could do what the wormholers really wanted - proper cap escalations geared to each type of cap ship. Oh and make sure they don’t respawn for 4 days - that was all wormholers wanted wasn’t it lol. Careful what you wish for wormholers! I guess we could try to do it right this time? There’s an idea! EUREKA! If they blow each other up more frequently they are happy, and the lost ISK balances out so they have to pay for PLEX and Subs… glory and trumpets! What a fab idea! Happy wormholers = more subs! And they all lived happily ever after… :house_with_garden:

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Woot ? maybe should read…

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As long as C5/6 sites are the incredible isk/hour that they are people will risk stuff to run them.

The issue I see is that MJD rattles are never going to get caught short of pilot error. With astra farming + mjd rattles you’re risking nothing in exchange for slightly less isk/hour than dreads.

Make sleepers scram. Remove astra farming. Groups will adapt and start running dreads. Those that don’t change are so risk averse anyways that they wouldn’t have been caught and generated any PvP tokens.

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100% agree! CCP need to do something ASAP!!!

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I havent played in months … I canceled all my subs … an moved on to star citizen myself. This week I was bored so installed eve client and still had one account active on omega, so I log in and see whats going. I refuse to pay $ for multi accounts, and the whole reason I got 6-8 accounts is cause I fell mad in love with eve online… thinking in the end of all the investing I can find a quite space to actually make some isk and pvp with that isk. But there so many hangups along the way and all the changes ruined the gameplay and fun for me so ■■■■ it… lol Ill let my digi ■■■■ sit in the hanger and get dirty or sell it all one day. With alpha accounts, you can have a blob ruin your day and you pay and work all the time to blaa blaa you see where Im going with it. Im happier I let go, the game design isnt fun anymore because like ccp said, anything in eve isnt yours. you just rent it. and I am paraphrasing here… and idk what ccp member made that statement, but it put a sour taste in my mouth. TBH I think it was fozie. and if thats your ■■■■■■■ idea of keeping players coming BACK paying for more then well sir, I think you are just praying on the ignorant, and eventually, as we all see it how whos been playing ten some years, a lot of vets and older guys leave the game. Its still fun to warp around and play eve, but i think for multi boxing omegas, for ■■■■ isk and high risk of scrubs ruining your investment, what the ■■■■ is the point?

i may sell all my stuff and get ONE account… and play with omega, and can see that working out fine, but I wanted to do everything in eve, pi, mining, manufacturing, pvp, pve, exploration… and so on. hind sight, i would have one account subbed and not go multi boxing, thinking i can solo eve online… its just not that type of environment anymore. its changed over the years. ccp needs to keep new subs coming cause of how many old subs are leaving perhaps… idk.

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I miss being able to see npc kills on dotlan for jspace.

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To anyone that went to fanfest, did you hear about them planning changes or not?

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Why would CCP fix what isn’t broken?

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remember static mapper. idk why but i loved that website…

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I would ask you to stop being disingenuous. Remember there is suppose to be risk vs reward a lot of risk for a lot of reward. Pvp content not so much, you could get a group of 6 t3s and 2 to 3 logi even just t2 fit and kill the site runners. All the risk vs reward was for the pve player not the pvp player. The pvper risks almost nothing.