CCP should seriously consider removing Local from Null

(Xuixien) #1

I know this has historically been a fairly controversial topic, with a large swath of PvE dudes being opposed to the idea for obvious reasons. However, it would go a long way to solving some problems in the game.

Ratting and mining in NullSec is now almost completely safe. It’s true, don’t argue, you can’t. Yes ratters and miners do still die - the stupid ones who were using the bathroom or not aligned or whatever have you. A half intelligent PvEr at the keyboard can get out as soon as neutrals appear in Local - especially if they have one of the many (probably illegal) intel “program” networks set up that alert them when there’s hostiles as far as 10j away from them, or are watching one of the many streams that have been set up to remotely watch Local chat in other systems. Players openly brag about these setups on reddit. They’ve existed for years, but are now used widely and openly. It has to stop.

This allows ratting and mining with impunity. Right now we don’t need more mining and ratting. We need more ships blowing up, more destruction - we need to slow the ISK faucet of NullSec and sink some materials. If players are exploiting a game mechanic, that game mechanic needs to be changed and balanced.

Other changes need to be made as well, such as more intelligent NPC tackling (or perhaps a structure that tackles) in anoms, etc. Make NullSec dangerous again. Make players actually take risks for the rewards.

Local Removal
Gui Upgrades
Remove Local from Nullsec
(Xuixien) #3

No, not at all. Players will not voluntarily remove Local.

(Zarek Kree) #4

CCP did remove local. They call it wormhole space.

(Xuixien) #5

Unfortunately not a valid rebuttal, as WH space is fundamentally different from NullSec.

(Jeremiah Saken) #6

I think CCP mention something opposite when talking about new citadels structure: removing or delaying local for non nullsec dwellers. Something about using owned space.

[Suggestion] Delay Showing Up in Local Until Player Decloaks
(Xuixien) #7

So they’re gonna buff Local? RIP EVE economy.

(D Ijonen) #8

I think a step in the rigth direction is to remove api’s ability to read ingame channels. So that intel channels doesnt get automated into telling everyone theres hostiles inbound.

(Xuixien) #9

Anything that nerfs the ability to use automated intel bots would be a step towards a healthier EVE.

(Jeremiah Saken) #10

It was a proposal, with current economy mess I don’t think it will happen. I meant I hope because with CCP it’s never now.

(Mr Mieyli) #11

Null has access to too much information at present so I’d support something like this. At least making it more difficult to automate.

(Memphis Baas) #12

There are pros and cons for the idea, and like you said the topic has been discussed historically quite a lot. Which means that CCP has “seriously considered” it, and they haven’t removed it yet. It’s absent in wormhole space, so we can’t argue that it’s a technical limitation, or legacy code, or whatever they can’t do it. It’s already implemented. The only possible conclusion for its continued existence in null is that CCP has considered it, and decided against it, for whatever internal reasons that they didn’t disclose.

Thus, your thread, I’m sorry to say, is not going to go anywhere.

(Xuixien) #13

Here here.

(Cailais) #14

Removing local from Nul has been a really _really_long standing topic. In some ways I think W-Space was something of an experiment to see how it impacted gameplay.

If the view is that resources are too easily acquired in Nul, then there is some argument for removing local OR moving those resources out of Nul (but then why be there?).

Personally I have felt that Local as an information tool should degrade as Sec status reduces. But there should also be some options for Buffing a degraded local: maybe not permanently but for short durations by deploying scanners and the like (destructable?)

Balancing that would be quite tricky but feasible?

Gui Upgrades
(Armark Bether) #15

What purpose would it serve, except satisfying the “muh perfect intel” crowd ?
It would make cloaky camping ridiculously overpowered. The reason why cloaky camping isn’t that much of a big deal in w-space is that there are no “caps in jump range”, and no fixed route to leap on whatever’s tackled. Without local, you could just have a supercap fleet logged in in a deep safe, waiting for a hunter to catch stuff, or as a backup for “small honorabru gangs”.

Though, I feel like some mechanics should be in place to reduce the accuracy of local, like, say, taking away d-scan immunity from combat recon and replacing it by 30 seconds of local immunity when entering a system ? I-Hub upgrades that manipulate local chat ?

Additionally, it would be just as easy to make d-scan/overview bots that you’d position at the gates leading up to your system. Even cloaky ships appear on overview/dscan for at least one tick.

(Xuixien) #16

To answer the question: The health of the game.

  1. Cloaky camping OP? Good.
  2. Gotta actually be paying attention to see someone jump through a gate on stream.

(DaReaper) #17

There is a possibility that Observatories, will do something to local

(Lulu Lunette) #18

We just need more dumb people playing the game!

(Dan Morvis) #19

This is an absurd suggestion. If you want easier kills, just say so. Without an in-game intel tool, players in organized null corps will simply use other methods to create an intel network. Intel is, IMO, essential part of null life and pirates/gankers should adapt, infiltrate or simply get good at the game.
For all your swagger, some null PvPers sure sound a lot like highsec carebears.

(Xuixien) #20

Back that statement up then.

Do I personally want easier kills? Not particularly - what I want is a healthy EVE Online. And part of the problem is an impervious intel network in NullSec.

Look I got it - you want risk free ISK printing, because you’re a risk averse person. In fact, you won’t even risk posting with your main! That kind of says it all.

(Dan Morvis) #21

This is my main. I’m actually a newbie and, if anything, I’m sorry if I don’t know what I’m talking about.

My experience with null comes from Providence, where I mined for a bit when I first got into barges. Frankly, it was really interesting to see how big of a failure a NRDS policy is in null. I saw several barges - mainly hulks - being ganked and destroyed daily. The only reason I survived was because I’m not an idiot. If I saw a stranger 5 jumps away, I’d align and stand ready to warp.

I say this suggestion is absurd because the only reason null is safe - from what I’ve seen - is because players got smart. There’s few easy kills and the guys I saws destroying ships in Provi were simply smarter. I know that in a NBSI area things might be different, but that’s to be expected - the security of the system is only as great as the rulling corp/alliance can be. Removing local will simply force players to set up alt scouts to stay in key systems or to set up different sources for Vintel or similar software.

You are indeed correct: null mining has flooded the market, but not because it’s safe, but because it’s easy. I’ve seen 20+ Rorq fleets clean up belts in minutes. Say what you will, but as a dedicated miner, capital ships should not be so common or so ubiquitous. And especially, so efficient. The problem is not that they’re hard to kill, is that while they’re on the belt, they will be extremely efficient at gathering resources and that needs to be balanced.

I honestly don’t get this kind of ‘make EVE unsafe again’ threads and I apologize if I come out as abrasive or something. Because, from my perspective, EVE is unsafe. For idiots. And it is safe, for smart people; however, it’s because the pirates and gankers are always getting smarter that we, miners, need to be smart. And to give us some kind of handicap to make easier to kill is simply not the answer. Maybe cloaking could be used offensively, not just defensively? Maybe infiltration or sabotage of those intel networks could be done. Honestly, I don’t know. But to remove a source of intel for miners/others will certainly make EVE unsafe for just a little while and other, maybe worse, forms of intel might surface.