CCP should seriously consider removing Local from Null

[Nolak_Ataru]

@Xuixien

And yet you have no proof, argument, evidence, hypothesis, or theory that removing Local would make NullSec safer for residents.

Except I did, and I outlined it in great detail in an earlier post:

@Nolak_Ataru

Removing local, if anything, hurts hunter/killers (which I note you are not) more than it hurts any ratters in a competent alliance, for three simple reasons:

1. It becomes much harder for the HK to determine if a system is worth your time to scan down a target and tackle it.
2. It becomes much harder for the HK / FC to weigh the risk/reward ratio if he wants to see if there’s a large number of active, docked players in a given constellation/region. The greater the number of players, the greater the risk of Triage being dropped, let alone hostile DPS carriers/supercarriers.
3. Intel channels are still a thing, and will continue to be used. Instead of glancing at local, you’ll glance at your other screen (or use other methods that are not cache scraping) or your staggered window to look at the name of the hostile that just decloaked on the gate. One autolink later, and the entire region knows that Derpy McDerpface just entered VFK in a Claw ten seconds ago.

Quoted for your convenience.

@Xuixien

Yeah, an ad hominem, just like you did when you said “You just want Local removed so you can get easier kills”? Isn’t that also a straw man, as well as an appeal to motive? Pot, kettle, black?

And I crafted an actual argument further down in the thread which you skipped over and instead participated in a Tu Quoque fallacy in the quoted text.

@Xuixien

you’re disrupting that actual discussion and just dragging it down to personal attacks and mudslinging.

Pot, kettle. I gave you as many if not more chances to stop shitflinging but you turned me down.

To anyone else who may be reading and still is not convinced that removing local would make it safer for residents, you’re 100% welcome to mail me and we can discuss it like civilized human beings.

[Dan_Morvis]

@Xuixien

Anyhow, I’ve given you enough chances so far, you’re clearly either a troll or just a hypocrite, and now I have to block you as you’re disrupting that actual discussion and just dragging it down to personal attacks and mudslinging. Buhbye!

I wonder: where is this block tool? I can’t find it.

[Frostys_Virpio]

I’m sure everyone is thrilled by the idea of spamming d-scan non stop when doing anything in all of null because some people think local is OP…

[Toran_Mallow]

@Xuixien

I’ve already answered all your questions - at length. I’m sorry the discussion didn’t turn out the way you wanted it to. But you’re going to have to take it private message, because at this point I have no recourse but to block you. Sorry.

Ahahahaha omg this thread is priceless!

[Dan_Morvis]

@Toran_Mallow

Ahahahaha omg this thread is priceless!

I know, right!?

[Xuixien]

@Frostys_Virpio

I’m sure everyone is thrilled by the idea of spamming d-scan non stop when doing anything in all of null because some people think local is OP…

Yes because a bot that scrapes info out of the client and gives you an audio alert when there’s a hostile 10j out is totally great for the game.

[Nolak_Ataru]

Except that’s not what the “bot” does as cache scraping is banned.
NEAR/TACO still require a human being to report the hostile in an intel channel before it does anything.
Actual botting programs, which NEAR/TACO are not, don’t bother with intel channels and instead scrape the cache.

[Armark_Bether]

Cloaky camping OP? Good.

Can you elaborate with a complete sentence ? Cloaky camping is a cancer mechanism. Requires no effort, no risk, great rewards, denies gameplay for PvE people and creates no content for anyone, except in the very rare case when someone gets caught, even then the gameplay can be summarized in “undock, jump, F1, cloak, jump back”. It’s a destructive mechanism that needs to either die or get a reasonable counter.

Gotta actually be paying attention to see someone jump through a gate on stream.

Sure… But in the intel bot case, it doesn’t matter.

Also, what are wormholes ? Like, we already have a place where local isn’t working. Doesn’t make sense to have the exact same mechanics in nullsec. What’s the difference between null and wh space ? Sov structures. Why not do something different using these ?

[Armark_Bether]

Just nitpicking, but they scrape the logs of intel channels. And yeah, the red line is “what is entering the data into the system?” : for NEAR, it’s an human, so that’s mostly okay.

[Nolak_Ataru]

CCP stated that chatlog scraping was allowed, but cache scraping is not.

[Frostys_Virpio]

All those “bots” do is read the chat logs generated because players report every neut/red in their local to a centralized channel and report when it see something fitting to a template. Players still need to do the actual reporting and if CCP cared about it, they could just disable chat logging. It would be stupid because people would turn to out of game chat but vOv…

[Toran_Mallow]

@Armark_Bether

Also, what are wormholes ? Like, we already have a place where local isn’t working. Doesn’t make sense to have the exact same mechanics in nullsec. What’s the difference between null and wh space ? Sov structures. Why not do something different using these ?

This. This exactly.

[Jallukola]

Nah, they should just make an options ticker for you to hide local since it bothers you so much. Disable your own local, not force it on others. I know you wouldn’t anyways, so too bad.

[Linus_Gorp]

@Nolak_Ataru

Yes. I don’t know what I’m talking about in regards to nullsec and hunting despite living in nullsec for the better part of 4 years, having been in GSF, TEST, and Black Legion, having owned and lost multiple ratting carriers and owned a supercarrier, having dropped my suicide fax on multiple tackled friendly carriers and supercarriers, and having spent countless hours discussing nullsec hunting/killing, ratting, and sov warfare. Please do continue to lecture to me like I’m some highsec carebear.

Removing local, if anything, hurts hunter/killers (which I note you are not) more than it hurts any ratters in a competent alliance, for three simple reasons:

1. It becomes much harder for the HK to determine if a system is worth your time to scan down a target and tackle it.
2. It becomes much harder for the HK / FC to weigh the risk/reward ratio if he wants to see if there’s a large number of active, docked players in a given constellation/region. The greater the number of players, the greater the risk of Triage being dropped, let alone hostile DPS carriers/supercarriers.
3. Intel channels are still a thing, and will continue to be used. Instead of glancing at local, you’ll glance at your other screen (or use other methods that are not cache scraping) or your staggered window to look at the name of the hostile that just decloaked on the gate. One autolink later, and the entire region knows that Derpy McDerpface just entered VFK in a Claw ten seconds ago.

Here’s the part where you bury your head in the sand, pick out a single hyperbole that I wrote, and attack that in a strawman argument.

You know what I got out of that? That you’re a clueless nullsec farmbear. You think you understand game mechanics but you actually don’t. Just another crappy F1 monkey that doesn’t understand how things actually work.

But sure, keep telling yourself that you know stuff. Everyone with half a clue immediately sees that you’re just talking rubbish.

[Linus_Gorp]

@Armark_Bether

Cloaky camping is a cancer mechanism. Requires no effort, no risk, great rewards, denies gameplay for PvE people and creates no content for anyone, except in the very rare case when someone gets caught, even then the gameplay can be summarized in “undock, jump, F1, cloak, jump back”. It’s a destructive mechanism that needs to either die or get a reasonable counter.

Cloaky camping is the only available counter to instant local chat intel, intel bots and intel networks. If you want 100% safe ratting, then go to highsec where you belong or play another game entirely.
Nullsec is a pvp zone and the increased rewards are supposed to come with increased risk, but these days the only risk short of being a retarded dimwit that gets caught by roamers is imposed by cloaky camping. And that’s not even any risk at all because you just choose to dock up and whine on the forums about how the bad afk cloaker plays mind games with you.

You could adapt and have a standing fleet up or rat in a pvp ship, but clearly that’s not what you want. You want CCP to hold your entitled baby hand instead of growing up and dealing with the fact that increased reward is supposed to come with increased risk.

You’re just pathetic.

[Nolak_Ataru]

@Linus_Gorp

You think you understand game mechanics but you actually don’t. Just another crappy F1 monkey that doesn’t understand how things actually work.

Alright then, why do you think removing local helps hunker/killers and not ratters with an intel network?

You sound mad. Have a quafe and chill.

[D_Ijonen]

Cloaky camping wouldnt be a problem when there is no local. If you dont like mashing dscan, maybe dscan needs a fix?

[Linus_Gorp]

@Nolak_Ataru

Alright then, why do you think removing local helps hunker/killers and not ratters with an intel network?

If you’d have any clue about hunting, you wouldn’t ask that question because it’s just that obvious.

[Nolak_Ataru]

@Linus_Gorp

If you’d have any clue about hunting, you wouldn’t ask that question because it’s just that obvious.

Burden of Proof and circular argument fallacies (and a touch of argument from authority?). You don’t win arguments by insulting the other person.

@Nolak_Ataru

why do you think removing local helps hunker/killers and not ratters with an intel network?

I explained my rationale as to why removing local hurts HKs. I’d like to hear your opinion of the matter.

[Mr_Mieyli]

Don’t feed him, he’s just trolling.