CCP stop those annoying NPC Mining fleets

Communications Center General Discussion
226

I had to re-quote myself since you took everything i stated and chopped it up, took it out of context and then attacked all those out of context references with strawman attacks. I placed my entire quote here and left nothing out to make this clear to other readers.

Delve has crashed the market for minerals and ores in highsec. The prices of ore and minerals in highsec has tanked since CCP turned the rorqual into a mining monster instead of just revamping its support role. This is a fact, so much so that, CCP has nerfed the rorqual a few times to try and stem the problem of rorquals over producing ore and destroying ore and mineral prices EVE wide.

You make a claim that, ‘i admitted’, that no destruction of highsec ore and minerals was occurring from nullsec mining since i stated that, ‘I could have made more ISK refining and building things in Delve’. What you fail to mention is that the other half of that statement says that I DID NOT WANT TO DO ANYTHING BUT MINE AND SELL MY ORE and that Delve buyers would not pay full price for ore because of the overabundant supply.

This argument on your behalf again clearly shows you suffer heartily from black and white thinking, in that you cannot grasp a situation where many miners chose to ‘industrialize’ their ore for better profits but FAIL to recognize that a many other miners just want to mine and sell their ore to SOMEBODY and go back to mining.

Also of note is that, Delve is about as far away from Jita as a region can get and so since i made more isk for my ore paying goonswarm shipping fees on top of Jita market fees and STILL made more isk from my ore then even the highest Delve buyer was willing to pay, this means that it is highly likely that regions closer to jita would make even more Isk for their compressed ore than i myself did, since they would not have to ship their ore so far.

TL;DR

Solonius Rex chopped up my comments, taking them out of context so that he could then change their meaning and proceed to stack up a pile of strawman attacks against those comments after he was done butchering their intent to suit his own agenda. I requoted myself to show exactly what the spirit of my post was and to show staunchly how much Solonius Rex had altered their meaning.

1 Like
227

Link#1: states

“3. Miners and Industrialists - mining maybe a small amount so they don’t inconvenience capsuleers.”

This poster states clearly that the NPC miners should NOT inconvenience capsuleers and attributing CCPs placement of clearly annoying NPCs to his request and equating his request to CCPs actions is not fair to the poster since this is NOT what he asked for and doing so amounts to a lie, since it isnt what he said, nor wanted.

Link #2:

The person is NOT a miner and more importantly NOT A CAREBEAR (because carebears by their nature dont want conflict) this person is in fact a nullbear that you misquoted as a carebear who wants NPCs to duel people in general and has nothing to do with mining at all. (hence another distortion of fact, amounting to yet another lie, you’re two for two on lying and i havent even gotten through your entire post yet).

Link #3:

  1. NPC cities on planets seen from space, perhaps interact and land in them. They can have their own NPC mining structures that, when you land on the planet, in the city, you can purchase planetary materials depending on the planet type.

(so far this poster seems to be the kind of guy you said you could find but…)

  1. NPC planetary colonies/cities should be able to produce CAPITAL SHIPS, regular ships etc for sale.

This person isnt a carebear either but ANOTHER NULLBEAR and you quoted him as a carebear because it again suits your agenda and strawman attacking people is your thing and btw, this is the third lie in one post, just to keep you updated on your lie count.

p.s. I use the term nullbear to refer to any person that generally hates residents of highsec, our mindset and our fight for reasonable game mechanics.

228

Thats just plain wrong, and ill use some facts to back up my argument.

So the Rorqual changes were implimented in November, 2016. These are the introductions of Excavator mining drones that changed the Rorqual from a mining boost and compression platform to an independant mining ship.

The Imperium entered Delve around August 2016.

Now, lets dig up an old MER, back in September and October 2016, when the Imperium was in Delve, but Rorqual changes had not been implimented yet.

image
image1920×864 197 KB

image
image1920×1080 268 KB

The imperium somehow managed to out-mine everyone, even though Rorquals hadnt been implimented as they are now. Delve out-mined everyone.

But then, take a look at the next few months:

image
image1920×1080 268 KB

image
image1920×1080 264 KB

So Delve went from 1.375 trillion isk from September to 2.000 Trillion isk in October, an increase of 45%. And only a mere 5% increase from October to November, the month that rorquals were released, and another mere 9% increase from Nov to Dec.

And when you actually take a look at the minerals price index, the falling price of minerals happened near the start of 2016, which was before the Imperium entered Delve, and before the rorqual changes:

image
image1920×1080 283 KB

(mineral prices indicated in orange)

So no, youre wrong. Mineral prices were already decreasing well before, and the single largest increase in mining that Delve did was before Rorquals were implimented, and not after. It wasnt because of delve, and it wasnt because of the rorquals.

Thats not what i said.

I said that the serious miners, who actually make a bulk of the percentage of mining with their 10 man rorqual fleets, would prefer to build ships in nullsec, than sell their minerals in hisec.

And then, I followed it up, by agreeing with you, and your stance on how the smaller players who have 1, 2 accounts and mine casually, would prefer to sell their ore in hisec.

So please, how am I taking anything that you said, out of context?

or perhaps you did not bother to read my post?

Oh, cool. So youre saying its not delve after all. K.

Yeah, without actually providing any evidence as to me taking your comments out of context.

And straw man? Please, detail where i straw-manned your arguments. Please do. Id love to see it.

Do you even understand what a straw man argument, is?

TL;DR

Dont make claims without actually backing up your claims with evidence or explanations. Shame on you. Shame.

1 Like
229

This is a prime example of you taking a comment out of context and changing its meaning by attributing something to my comment that is exactly contrary to its intended meaning. ( I’m not inclined to go through my entire post recounting all the distortions you put on my statements because this one alone is a good enough example).

230

Explain?

231

Also, I love how i just went through using detailed graphs provided by CCP to explain why youre wrong, and you respond to a single sentence, claim its a straw man, or changing the context, or something, and write the entire post off.

Very disingenuous of you.

Shame.

1 Like
232

Im not sure just how much i need to dumb this down till you can see it but this is as about as intellectually devoid a comment as i can make, im incapable of making comments any more simpleton than this.

Also of note is that, Delve is about as far away from Jita as a region can get and so since i made more isk for my ore paying goonswarm shipping fees on top of Jita market fees and STILL made more isk from my ore then even the highest Delve buyer was willing to pay, this means that it is highly likely that regions closer to jita would make even more Isk for their compressed ore than i myself did, since they would not have to ship their ore so far.

Oh, cool. So youre saying its not delve after all. K.

The statement clearly states that, ‘I made more isk for my ore paying goonswarm shipping fees on top of Jita market Fees and STILL made more isk for my ore then even the highest Delve buyer was willing to pay’, hence anyone with an IQ over 10 should get that I was a goon, I was selling ore in Jita and that, that means goons were dumping ore onto Jita and your resposnse was…

Oh, cool. So YOU’RE saying its NOT delve after all. k. which is clearly counter to my actual statement.

Is this dumbed down low enough for you because seriously i really do not think i can get it down any dumber.

233

And then, what did you say?

What did you say directly after that?

You said,

Regions, other than delve, correct?

And what was the point of making this comment?

The only point i could think of, is that youre saying that other regions are also contributing to the mineral crash, because other regions closer to Jita have less cost on Jump freighter surcharges and less fuel and logistics required.

Which means that youre saying its not solely delves fault, are you not?

Please, tell me im wrong and explain, or agree that im right, and move on to the rest of my argument.

EDIT.

Just wanted to add, that yes, that was what my sentence was regarding, and what i was responding to. Didnt know if this was clear, because, you know, you seem to be omitting a lot out of both myself and your own post.

234

I never responded to your GRAPHS, so please post where i claimed your GRAPHS amounted to a strawman attack, change of context or that I [wrote] off your GRAPH post in its entirety. I will be extra clear here that I am talking about your GRAPH post and no other post that preceded your GRAPH post.

235

Is English not your first language?

Let me break my sentence down for you.

This part of my sentence, is about how I, Solonius Rex, wrote up a detailed post regarding why you are wrong in your previous post.

The “Single sentence” that i am referring to here, is the sentence that you responded to, i.e. the following sentence, “Oh, cool. So youre saying its not delve after all. K.”

Which you did, by stating that the sentence, above(Referring to the “Oh, cool. So youre saying its not delve after all. K.” that I made), was, and i will quote directly from you, from the aforementioned post:

Tl;dr

I know you never responded to your graphs, and I never claimed that you were talking about the graphs, which was the point. I want you to address the argument there, but instead, you quoted a single sentence out of my post, and responded solely to that, and claiming it was out of context.

I didnt expect i would have to write it out like this.

Jesus.

236

This is a CORRECT counterpoint to my statement but this ‘corrected’ version is NOT the comment you actually made which was:

Note the all important words, ‘NOT DELVE AFTER ALL’. This means Delve did not contribute to the decline of mineral prices in highsec AT ALL and you are attributing that to me as though i said that which i did not, i said that [paraphrasing] Delve and other nullsec regions contributed to the decline of mineral prices in highsec.

237

“After all” does not mean “At all”.

Didnt know i would have to explain it thoroughly, but apparently, with you, I must.

So, the original argument that I was responding to, was this person:

She specifically mentions and singles out Delve, to which I responded.

Notice, how i have never denied, and even agreed with you, that there are people who ship ore to jita?

Whether the nullsec regions, together, are having an impact on the hisec Mineral market, is debatable, and we can talk about it.

Whether or not its solely delves fault, is what ive always responded to, and what im responding to now.

This was something I reiterated, earlier on with my discussion with Nevyn Auscent:

As you can see, I was specifically addressing the claim that Delve was near-solely at fault, and that the greater Nullsec regions other than delve had little or nothing to do with it.

TL;DR

Im fine with discussing whether or not its nullsec as a whole, is the problem of crashing mineral prices. But If anyone is going to single out Delve as the problem, then theyre flat out wrong.

238

If i dont make a comment about your ‘GRAPHS’ comment you cannot say that i DID it really is so straight forward im having trouble understanding how you’re not getting it.

NOW, i will FINALLY speak to your graphs posting. Yes, I know mineral prices were already dropping in highsec even before the rorqual changes because CCP shifted mineral compositions from highsec to nullsec to, ‘make nullsec more independent [from highsec]’.

As a consequence nullsec didnt need minerals from highsec anymore and so highsec mineral prices plunged because nullsec wasnt buying highsec ore anymore or the minerals that came from them.

239

In the context of your statement the words ‘after all’ and ‘at all’ are exactly equivalent statements, in general they may or may not be equal but as you used them IN CONTEXT the have the exact same meaning.

240

I never claimed Delve was solely at fault, in fact, when i said that Delve is farther away from Jita than almost any other region and so i believed that other closer regions would make more profit sending ore to Jita and by inference they would be sending more to Jita than Delve.

Im exhausted, your understanding of the English language is horrible and i cannot fix that by making more and more posts pointing that fact out.

bye…

241

I agree, I know that I cannot say that you DID comment about my graphs, when you didnt.

Which is why i never said it.

Is English your second language or something? Because, im fine with that. If you dont understand what I said, or need me to explain further, just say so, and Ill do it.

…And Delve was also making massive advances in Mining, even before the Rorqual changes. Right?

242

Well, thats what we were discussing.

So congratulations on joining in on the conversation and making yourself look like a fool.

Thats rich, coming from someone who couldnt follow a simple sentence, and doesnt understand how the antecedent works.

So bye, i guess? Im glad you realized how poorly you were doing and decided to leave.

243

Noooo!!!

This was a fun thread on a cold and snowy Saturday night.

Though I guess I’ll still be laid up tomorrow with the negative 16 and 20cm of blowing snow, so hopefully you’ll pick it back up sometime then.

244

What??? Are you by chance living in Toronto??? Cause we just got our major snowstorm of the winter today!

245

I didn’t say that. I said carebears were asking for npc miners for immersion. The fact they take loads of ore is a level of immersion they weren’t expecting. Go back and read my post. Notice the ‘too immersive for you?’

Poetic justice. Just like ‘give freighters fittings’. Be careful what you wish for.

Yep. Carebears have been asking for npc haulers, npc patrols, npc duellers, npc mercs, npc this, npc that. It’s all going to fall under the same umbrella.

Be careful what you wish for.

A null bear is a carebear that lives in null. Not that it really matters.

Have to say. Didn’t expect such a deep salt mine from you.

1 Like