The ninja salvagers deincentivise people from forming up actual fleets to kill the NPCs. Soon people won’t feel like it is worth it to even bother trying when half their loot is being stolen.
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Just for the sake of accuracy: you get a suspect flag (yellow safety) when stealing from a jetcan (or shooting deployables) not a criminal flag, criminal flag you get for actions that get you CONCORDOKKEN (red safety).
In my experience there are not THAT many ninja salvagers. Also w/o actual fleets to kill npcs ninjas will disappear …
I think he was trying to get the person who suggested that salvaging should give suspect timer, why it doesn’t give a timer like when looting someone elses wreck.
My post has nothing to do with that, just clarifying he used the incorrect terminology and for the sake of clarity provided correction.
In that case all those who don’t applaud this move by CCP should just cancel their subs and then all the leet PvP toons can watch CCP go t*** up. I most certainly won’t resub after this move.
Zoltan
I did not try the invasion thing. Did not had the time, and actually am not interested after reading the comments.
What about stopping playing when there are ninja salvagers in the system ? What about making a decoy-tanking team that attracts the ninja salvagers close to the rats while tanking them, while another team is actually killing rats somewhere else in the system or in another system ? Or even better split the fleet in three, three parts with a noctis (sebo+double tractor+ double salvager) each, enough tank to handle the rats without killing them when ninja salvagers are on grid ? That is, making the ninja salvagers waste their time ?
I’m pretty sure that suggestion of mine is stupid. Tell me why ?
Over time I imagine the ways to get paid will change. As it stands right you know that salvage is your pay so be more active in making sure you get all you can. After all strategy is a huge part of the game. Take abyssal space for example. People tried many ships before the preferred Gila became the best strategy. You should rejoice in the opportunity that these invasions present to test various strategies.
These invasions may be considered PvE, but like all other PvE there is always a threat of PvP, as it should be. If you simply want to do your PvE and get rewards end of story there are other games for that. Eve hopefully will never be that.
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If there was a possibility for PvP, that would be ok. Currently the ninja salvagers can do their thing while being protected by Concord as you don’t go suspect from salvaging somebody elses wreck. And while some might say, have some suicide gankers at hand to kill the ninja salvagers - not all might want to sink that far.
Zoltan
This isn’t much different from having stayed docked up in a station all day every day until a wardec dropped prior to the introduction of wardec immunity mechanics. You don’t want to stop doing something because other players are giving you a hard time, you want to do something to about it other than leave. PVP is an opportunity, not a liability.
How I see it, it is actually very different. You make them waste their time with one team, while the other two are farming. If they change target, you do the same.
You don’t need to remain docked. Actually being docked would have a bad effect, as you would not make them waste their time.
PvP is not only shooting at people. It’s competing versus them. Remember your most important resource is your time - it’s the same for ninja salvagers.
But maybe my idea is not doable for practical reasons ?
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If CCP would rearrange the reward such that more reward was in the loot, then more people would become suspect and enagable without drawing CONCORD’s wrath. While my past history has shown that even suspect players may not be routinely engaged by certain HS players, increasing the number of suspect players would help drive content creation. As it is now, small group and solo players find themselves watching their hard work disappear in the hold of another player’s frigate with no other choices than either ignore or suicide attack. I’m not sure the devs thought this content all the way through.
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I agree… Definitely, 100%… This is what needs to happen, kinda wondering why it wasnt this way all along.
Let me rephrase. No matter what you do in Eve there should always be a threat or chance for loss. Period. PvP, ninja looters, or simply making a mistake on the market.
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Yes, for the Invasion runners there is the usual chance of loss, that is being suicide ganked. And for the ninja salvager there should also be a risk - the usual one for taking somebody elses property - suspect timer - after all, the wrecks are yellow and not blue.
Or else we should have the same rules for everybody - what about a ship which can siphon off a large part of ratting ticks while cloaky camping? How would that feel - you are cheated and loose your income and can’t engage…
Zoltan
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I admit it is a odd setup. In abyssal space there is no salvage to be had, but the moment they come to our space salvage becomes the isk grab. On top of that there is no suspect flag for salvaging another’s wreck.
Either someone got the programming wrong or… go back to my previous post, there is a strategy they want us to come up with. I would like to think its intended, but as there are faults with the newest update elsewhere, this could just be something that will get fixed soon.
I’m curious as to what risk you think the ninja salvagers are opening themselves up to? As the option to ‘engage in PvP’ does not really exist unless you’re willing to take the sec hit + downtime (criminal timer) to gank them… it’s pretty risk free afaict because those engaging the trigs get the agro so not much (if anything) is shooting the salvagers.
Heh, and yet you double down on that argument? But ok, I’ll bite.
For someone who likes to maximise their isk/hr while running L4s this seems like a complete waste of time. But to respond to your initial point, the ninja salvagers won’t be on grid with your ‘tank team’ very long (if at all), because there are no wrecks! So the only time your wasting is that of those in the ‘tank team’. People are already complaining about how difficult it is to covert their effort into reward, this idea doesn’t help.
I have dipped my toe into the invasion, first in a T3D then a BS, and it was a case of either “need to warp as overwhelmed” or “i can kill all the things… now loot/salvage”. Neither of which was particularly engaging. At one stage myself and a friendly Rokh pilot in system discussed tanks and the lack of ‘good loot’ after ~1.5-2hrs of constantly killing stuff, after which he left, and I left not long after. It’s no more interesting than L4s once you get the hang of it, for way less income (even before the ninja salvagers take ‘your’ wrecks).
Regards,
Cypr3ss.
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Normally looting/salvaging a wreck that isn’t yours to loot makes you suspect and therefore liable to be shot at without CONCORD intervention; however, from what I’ve heard this isn’t happening during the Trig Invasions for some reason. I haven’t done the invasions myself so I cannot say for sure, but I will say that if this is not happening then it should be happening as per existing mechanics everywhere else in HS/LS
It is still the case for Invasions that looting makes you suspect but salvaging does not. There has always been that distinction in the short time I have been playing and it still applies in this Expansion.
From my observation, looting is both common and uncommon. I know that sounds weird. What I normally see is 1-4 flashy yellow in a system (so it appears common) but at least 1 is typically baiting and the others are mainly(?) looting player wrecks, not Trigs (so uncommon to see looting of invasion ships?) Not sure about that but it looks like that might be the case.
Salvaging though is definitely on the up. Its has gone from “fields” of abandoned yellow wrecks on day one, which I ground down in a venture, to now small fleets of destroyers (sunesis is a favorite), who mix in when the main fleet is actively fighting. It is hard to know if they are scavengers or part of the “team” but I cant mix it and survive. The alternative for the hunters is to fly BS and grind slowly and take the wrecks as they go. Looks boring as bat sh*t as a playing style but it certainly stops scavengers like me. I just go mine ice instead (and it has been real quiet on belts recently.)
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I was not previously aware that there was/is a distinction. If this is indeed the case then I suspect everybody and their grandmother would agree that the Crimewatch rules for both looting and salvaging should be the same. (I suppose that extends to tractoring as well.)