While I do agree that taking away local chat renders afk cloaky camping useless, it is not without issues by itself.
In wormhole space you can watch your entrances and know there is a limit to the amount of players that could enter your system to jump on you.
In null there is no such thing: filaments could drop 25 man into your system and you wouldn’t know. Or that single gate flash from last week could cyno in a couple hundred bombers on too of your ship.
I agree that local provides a lot of safety. But no local means you would be stupid to be out in space unless you’re prepared to escalate against any number of opponents.
I don’t think that’s such a good idea.
I do agree that local is powerful and could use a nerf to accuracy. Possibly a delay, cloaked ships not showing up or local chat being replaced by constellation chat. But straight up removal of local simply makes living in wormholes look easy compared to null.
You’re not a crappy poster, and you mean well, so don’t interpret this as an attack, but as someone so heavily involved in high-end industry, you have no excuse for having such severe misconceptions about how these things truly work.
First of all, that’s not how buying a company works. You don’t hand over some money to people so that they owe you twice as much in return. There’s no need to do that, and it doesn’t make any sense. Buying a company involves purchasing a holding stake, and then getting profit dividends (plus gaining the ability to leverage its existing assets for other purposes, which is interestingly how many of these purchases get financed - the acquirer literally uses the assets of the company being acquired to pay for the acquisition).
Next: the bit about Koreans is utter conjecture. Don’t make the assumption that just because the owners are foreign, they necessarily want to transform the company into something local and familiar. They’re savvy, international businessmen, and understand the value of EVE Online as a product.
Finally, you have a catastrophic misunderstanding of what drives conflict, in EVE and in general. Ask yourself this: are people more likely to go to war because they have a lot of stuff, or because they have so little that they desperately need to secure additional resources?
Scarcity is literally the driver of conflict. If you believe that conflict is driven by resource accumulation and the desire to expend these resources “for fun” when it’s “finally time” to do so, then you have a very convoluted understanding of EVE PvP that would be more at home in a game of Counter-Strike than in an MMO economic/social simulator.
It seems like you’ve been sold on the lie of the “ideal” EVE experience, which is “grind iskies to spend on ships to lose in pew-pew, lols!” But the reality is that players fight over the potential for opportunity and gain, instead of accumulating gains in order to use them up on fights that would be entirely meaningless and without purpose. Even if players aren’t conscious of this, don’t realize it, or even feel some kind of inherent need to deny it because it’s really at odds with their world view and how they’ve thought about this game all this time, this is still necessarily true.
Why not? Secure your space with active defense fleets at all times or accept the risk of losses. You don’t really hold sovereignty if a 25 man fillament gang can drop into “your” system and start wrecking stuff. You just paid someone to put your name on a system and farm it.
The removal of local would need to be balanced with the creation of additional tools and mechanics, such as active radar systems, intelligent/automated probes, and remotely-accessible location services.
Obviously a shitty 14AU scanner that you need to mash every second is insufficient as an intelligence-gathering tool.
EVE needs electronic intelligence/warfare suites much more in line with the ones being used by modern fleets as part of the concept of the “kill chain,” and not the sci-fi equivalent of a single guy shining a light into some dark corner and saying “is someone there?” every ten seconds like some kind of broken Skyrim NPC.
I accept constructive criticism, so I thank you for correcting me.
I only notice some factors since the acquisition that seem to fit with my understanding of korean games.
I have tried several korean grinders, and found them to be less than fun. I assume it’s a cultural issue. I do not enjoy long grinds for weak rewards. I can only assume others feel the same, as those korean grinders don’t typically perform very well, long term in any of the circles I run in.
I could be very wrong, and I accept that, however I have really only seen these changes since the acquisition, and it feels like “they” are trying to slowly turn this game into a korean grinder.
As for the driving factor for pvp;
I keep friends in multiple null alliances, and every one of them has told me (mostly) the same thing in conversation. When they are comfortable with their resources, they like to go on pointless roams and pew pew.
Recently, as their resources dwindle due to war and efforts by ccp, they are significantly more risk adverse. They go to coalition fleets as required and seem to enjoy their wins, but seem to be somewhat bitter at their losses.
They do not go on fun roams anymore. Either from pvp overload, or more likely (due to what they keep telling me) because they simply can’t afford to keep losing ships.
I and others are doing everything we can to keep producing ships at low prices so they can continue their playstyle, but outside of doctrine ships and fits, I am noticing my other sales are starting to slack.
That leads me to assume that outside of this war of ego’s, it would appear that a large number of people are more prone to random pvp when they feel secure in their resources.
Perhaps scarcity does lead to conflict in real life, and might lead to some down the road in this game, but i think more people play for fun rather than to struggle.
I do not work. I’ve recently cashed out on bitcoin, so I am able to stay home and play a lot of accounts. Realistically, when I’m not smoking weed and feeling pretty great, I’ve come to understand that my approach to this game has become that of a fulltime job. That’s just to keep up with demand, and I’m having some trouble with that. There are several factors, but mainly the lack of resources in null contribute to having to invest a lot of money and time into harvesting in highsec.
I’m feeling somewhat overwhelmed by it, to be completely honest. I feel like taking a vacation, but if I do, a lot of people will suddenly be without ships and modules.
That’s on top of just joining a newer corp and trying to set up new production lines with players that are just now getting into industry.
If I were to stop, I am honestly not sure who would pick up the load.
War is costly. War does appear to be the goal of the majority of null players. Before this war, for over 2 years all I heard was about how great wwb 1 was, and how we need another great war. People stockpiled for the potential for another one, and now that they’re in it, people have come back to the game that quit months or years ago.
So, it would appear that war IS the goal, regardless of scarcity or abundance. However, abundance makes it easier to wage war.
You’re completely correct, I do have a problem. Over the last couple of days, I am have been warring within myself over whether i consider this worth all that I’ve invested into it.
You are correct, but the issue is that you’re looking at it from a point of view after years of CCP ruining their game by pandering to the wrong people. EVE used to be a PvP game with PvE elements, where PvP is something you did because it’s the reason you played the game and other players were an obstacle to your success. If all you could afford was a T1 cruiser you did your best to find a way to make it work, and your fights had meaning when losing a ship might set you back to mission running in a T1 frigate until you could scrape together enough to buy a replacement. The idea of refusing to do PvP unless you had an abundance of resources would have been nonsense, who would want to cower in highsec that long?
Unfortunately at some point CCP decided to pander to the risk-averse PvE farmer market and make EVE more of a PvE game with some PvP attached. They encouraged this idea that you don’t PvP until/unless you have tons of wealth and can afford to immediately replace all of your losses. And of course since you need this massive level of wealth you should buy multiple farming alts and/or tons of PLEX. The result is that PvP means a lot less. Fewer people are willing to take any meaningful risks, so all you get is pointless arena-style “wars” and inflated “$99999999999999 DESTROYED IN ONE FIGHT” headlines.
Sorry if it isn’t what you and your friends want, but EVE needs to go back to its original audience and design concept. And that means if you can’t learn to PvP without unlimited wealth and immunity to any meaningful loss you’ll have to leave.
However, abundance makes it easier to wage war.
Abundance makes it easier to avoid war. Look at the current war, people stockpiled and stockpiled and stockpiled, and they only decided to start a war because it would be “fun” to have one. EVE used to be a game where you fought over limited resources and war was mandatory. You either killed the guy who had the stuff you needed or you were killed and evicted back to highsec in tears. And that’s how it needs to be again. There should never be a stable peace where everyone can stockpile endless wealth, pacifism should lead to immediate slaughter by those who are hungry enough to take what you have.
I can accept that.
I didn’t play a decade ago, so I can’t have the same perspective. The game naturally evolved. People will always flock together to build strength, corps will turn to alliances, will turn to coalitions, will turn into blue donuts.
However, you need to take into consideration that the majority of veterans of this game have generally had a perspective shift. Not all, by any means.
Newer players coming to the game tend to do so because of the headline battles. I was in rookie chat the last several nights, and one common thing I’ve read is that a lot of the current new players have come because of the m2 battle, and how it’s made some headlines.
If you lack the abundant resources to have groundbreaking battles like that, you will simply never see it again. People will be more prone to smaller ships, smaller battles, and less overall investment.
Afterall, what is the most common advice given to anyone in eve?
“Never fly what you can’t afford to lose”.
Veterans, with some exceptions, seem to be of the idea that there has to be a risk/payout stability for them to engage.
New players tend to be gung ho on getting to the largest ships and going to massive battles, win or lose, to be part of the history making headlines. There is something to be said about the glory of being involved. Even the losers will be talking about it for years.
Hell, I’ve been here 3 years and I want to be a bigger part of those battles. Unfortunately, the older playerbase is very suspicious and paranoid, and they look down on players that inject. Due to that, I was stuck in cruiser logi. Not really that fun.
There are people like me that have the ability and time to invest in resource gathering, so even during starvation, there can be “enough”. for example, I currently have … more than 5 caps in the cooker right now.
I’ve had some trouble selling my nidhoggurs, as people tend to use them for ratting, and that has been nerfed. So, I re-tooled for more pvp type caps. I’m sure they will sell rapidly. Some people are very much in favor of those large tidi battles. Perhaps with a little less tidi. Once you’re in it, you figure out it’s not fun. However, 14 hour pvp battles… yeah, that draws a crowd.
The point being, it’s too late for a major course change. Some people will enjoy it due to nostalgia, but I think the idea is to get and retain new players. The game evolved, it’s not time to devolve.
If you want their time and money, it has to be worth it. They have to feel like they can be the next masters of the game. It’s easy to say anyone can be the next brave, but in reality, it’s not that simple.
And then they leave because they realize that the headline battles are meaningless nonsense. Who cares if $999999999999999999 was destroyed in one battle when both sides have already replaced it all within 24 hours, and when the battle itself is a miserable slog because of server capacity issues? It’s completely meaningless arena PvP.
Contrast this with battles in EVE’s past where the dollar numbers were smaller but the stakes were much higher because the loser might be destroyed entirely as a functioning alliance. That’s the kind of thing that keeps people engaged, not inflated fake dollar values.
I currently have … more than 5 caps in the cooker right now.
Again demonstrating the problem. Capitals were supposed to be a collective effort and having even a single capital was supposed to be a significant accomplishment for a corp. Now you, one random person, have your own personal production line going. And now who cares if they lose a carrier when they’re so abundant and easy to replace?
The game evolved, it’s not time to devolve.
The game devolved. It’s long past time for CCP to correct their mistakes and restore EVE to what it was supposed to be.
And yes, EVE will lose players. EVE needs to trim the dead weight of people who are obsessed with endless accumulation of wealth and will only engage in meaningless arena PvP and only when the cost of doing so is negligible. CCP’s dependence on farmer subscription fees is a major obstacle to fixing EVE’s problems and a drain on the game that will eventually bring it down.
That’s because they’ve been sold the lie of the “ideal” EVE experience by people who profit from their presence. “Grind iskies to buy ships to lose in pew-pew, lols!”, as I like to call it, is a laughably short-sighted and self-defeating perspective. It makes you treat the game like some kind of MOBA or generic team-based shooter, when in fact it is anything but. Make no mistake, this is brainwashing, and the best players in the game have realized this and moved on from the null-sec worker drone lifestyle.
This is proper EVE. When someone puts the squeeze on you, and you have to fight back with limited resources, that is the true EVE experience. When you grind out the same pile of ISK every day, and then twice a week go out and lose a Hurricane or whatever simply because “roaming is just something that null-sec players do,” that’s self-deception.
Good. Someone should pay them a visit, and not give them a choice but to fight for what little they do have. And then they can either make the best of their resources and prevail, or fail miserably and go back to high-sec until they’re ready to try again. This is how empires fall, and rise again; it certainly doesn’t happen when groups are sitting on hoards of crap and occasionally throw whelping roaming gangs at each other.
For a little while. Then someone else will take your place.
What’s wrong with smaller ships? A battle can be just as “large” if smaller ships are being used. Does a battle need 700 dreads and a whopping 300 titans per side? How about 990 dreads and 10 titans? That’s still 1,000 ships per side, big ships in fact, but the resource outlay is only like 5% of the former. And it’s not like potential players understand the difference between a dread and a titan anyway; they just see the headline and a fancy screenshot or two (all of which will look relatively similar, which is to say two massive blobs of ships shooting at each other).
Sounds like you need to find a new group to join. Good, respectable players aren’t going to care where your SP came from; they just want to know if you’re going to pull your own weight or not.
Grats. I had to sell mine after the financial crisis a decade ago, and the banks were threatening me with jail time if I didn’t repay my student loans instantly because they needed the cash right away. Now I work 14-hour days just to be able to afford rent that’s 70% of my paycheck. But at least I can ship-toast here while I do.
I got into Eve after reading an article in Wired Magazine (I think It was 2010 or 2011) about a corporation that lost their Titan to another corp. It was a huge deal to even have a Titan. Now corps are throwing them at each other like some kind of oversized smartbomb where each side is fielding hundreds and losing hundreds. No biggie
The next logical step in the geometric progression of EVE power creep is obviously to make an even bigger ship that fires titans as ammunition, pilot and all.
isn´t it a good thing, that you only will able to catch , people that
aren’t paying attention and don’t react immediately?
Why should everyone be able to kill any Miner, or Ratter?
Killing a helpless one with a PvE, or mining fit in your PvP ship?
Absolutely not. PvE, like everything else in EVE, should include the possibility that you do everything correctly and still lose. Incompetence should not be the only way to lose a PvE ship.
Same for pvp.
Acutally not the case with AFK cloack.
Remove local change to many the risk/reward, you need a lot of tother change to make it viable. Like make super have they’re old EHP, or reinforce EHP of subcap, make mecanism who allow people to escape easier etc…
You could spin on that : It’s a fact, and blackout have confirm it.
killing miners and ratters and other pve stuff with a pvp fitted ship is no pvp, it´s something like killmail whoring.
had an ganking attempt on me in hisec some days ago, saw thrashers incoming, set prop mode on my jackdaw and warped out in the very last second…
This means the jackdaws prop mode is owerpowered and needs a nerf, because i could warp out?
Just because you survived in your anecdote, it doesn’t mean you faced no risks. You survived this time, but even if you were competent you could have died if the other players used a different strategy.
In most PvE nothing is unexpected, so the only way to die is due to incompetence or a bad connection.
It was 2010 or 2011) about a corporation that lost their Titan to another corp. It was a huge deal to even have a Titan. Now corps are throwing them at each other like some kind of oversized smartbomb where each side is fielding hundreds and losing hundreds. No biggie