CONCORD introduces the Dynamic Bounty System

Communications Center General Discussion
466

I’m not being a “perma-victim”. I’ve made it quite clear I’ve played (and have toons) in many other playstyles. So please cut the crap with your virtue signaling.

My argument is based on basic economics. Your ignorance of basic economics allows you to look at this change and think, “Gee! The value of my isk goes up!” when in reality, it goes down because those elite players at the top still trade that isk at the same value and you find that you slowly have no isk left while prices still remain virtually unchanged. Again, this is why the US has a Federal Reserve that just prints money when it feels like it (so people think). No, it prints money to devalue the consolidation of wealth in the hands of the most elite. And that’s what keeps an economy moving with minimal inflation. This is literally in accounting textbooks.

Of course, this may be why CCP has had to be sold to other companies now, maybe they don’t understand basic accounting and economics. I don’t expect everyone to, but I would expect a business to grasp the basics.

And mission grinding for 5 years didn’t earn it? Tell me, what is your definition of earning it? Being a player grinding 24/7 like a bot (or botting) since 2001? Just curious if you’re going to be honest about it because most of those there were in caps early on were botting. Most people who can “afford to lose” their caps without a replacement program bots. So, let’s be honest so we can address the real issue here.

It’s not about keeping it out of their hands, it’s about devaluing what is in their hands.

Isk destruction (PVP/fuels/etc) maintains that balance… Again, basic economics. If you can show me where PVP doesn’t destroy the amount of isk that the nullbears makes, I’ll be happy to concur that something needs to be done on a strict accounting standpoint. But that hasn’t happened and the proof is in a VERY stable market even after adding plex (which usually tanks most markets/economies in games).

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=personal+incrudelity

I made a prediction based on numbers presented. Again, change my mind.

Calling out that your argument is predicated on “nullbears pve” in a game you previously admitted was purely PVP is not nonsense, your argument is.

2 Likes
467

LoL u funny

468

Future content idea: forum warriors but paid with ISK. You guys look so energetic even more than ingame.

2 Likes
469

yay! I’m a space trillionaire! :slight_smile:

2 Likes
470

That was sarcasm. He’s claiming that 8 million ISK/day is the best you can expect with a 200 million ISK ship. So clearly you can’t be making 90 million ISK/hour with a Praxis.

Sure you are. You’re making post after post demonstrating the perma-victim mindset of “EVE is difficult, give up and never try”.

Your ignorance of basic economics allows you to look at this change and think, “Gee! The value of my isk goes up!”

WTF are you going on about? I have explicitly said that this is a nerf to income, one that is long overdue.

And mission grinding for 5 years didn’t earn it?

How the hell did you grind missions for 5 years and still struggle to replace ships? Are you completely incompetent at everything?

It’s not about keeping it out of their hands, it’s about devaluing what is in their hands.

Again, what are you going on about? Nobody is disputing that ISK destruction drives the economy, but that has nothing to do with the fact that nullsec ISK faucets are excessive and the heaviest exploiters of that excess are the people at the top.

I made a prediction based on numbers presented.

Pulling imaginary numbers out of your ass is not the same as evidence. Provide actual evidence or concede defeat.

In case you have forgotten, this is your unproven claim:

And you do realize that in order for you to make isk under this system, you have to take your operation to a system where someone just lost their super ratting

It’s not nonsense when your augment is predicated on “safety” in nullsec.

It’s predicated on competence in nullsec. I’ve made plenty of ISK in nullsec solo farming. No SRP, no friends to bail me out, only knowing how to succeed in EVE instead of being a helpless perma-victim.

471

No, the Praxis is going to get a nerf, we all know that. But there is no other ship in it’s class that can tank hordes like Gaius’s praxis did. Show me a Gallente ship that can. But we’re talking straight tank - ask Gaius how much he makes per tick in the praxis solo :wink:

No, I said others are. I’m just returning. The likelihood that I’ll leave is low. But when friends still hanging on are telling me they’re out after this patch goes live is disconcerting.

Oh lawd. How do you hear “valuation” and think the argument is being made about income?

Nope, I just didn’t bot.

Citation needed.

No, following a line of logic and making a prediction based on numbers is not evidence. It’s a prediction. Telling someone that they have to concede defeat because they made a prediction is called the strawman fallacy.

So what you’re saying is, you’re ratting in the no-name, no traffic systems, and telling those of us who rat in highly traveled, high-risk areas that we’re the problem?

1 Like
472

Given the fact that I’m making ISK (and hint: I’m not flying a capital ship) and not losing ships while you’re complaining about how impossible EVE is if you can’t make enough ISK to replace a supercapital every week I’d say you are in fact the problem. You’re bad at EVE and instead of learning how to stop being bad at EVE you’re here whining about a long overdue fix to nullsec ISK faucets.

But what else would I expect from someone who thinks that a Vigilant has ~30-75 DPS and you can’t make more than 8 million ISK/day with a 200 million ISK ship.

473

You’re not losing that ship because you’re not a target big enough to even consider which goes right back to the balance of super-ratting. This game has always been about risk vs reward and we’re derailing that for the sake of wingers crying about a play-style. No, you’re not crying about an economy because it’s been the same for literally 5 years and has worked very well and has been the subject of academia. You’re crying about a play-style - folks that can make isk, and if they’re smart about it, they can make it quick.

If you think it’s being bad at Eve to play safe where there should be no safety using your brain, then you’ve missed the concept of PVP. I’m not the bad player, those trying to change the game are. As the saying goes, “hate the game, not the player”. Well, as it turns out, you took that advice and are changing the game.

Bad players are usually the ones wanting the game changed, case in point.

That’s just ridiculous to take those example (and relative) stats and try and use it like that lol. We were going on it’s ability to tank (and what it could tank) as well. For example, a cheaply fit vigilant is not surviving a horde (not without jumping out several times to heal on a citadel lol). The point being made is that your isk per hour is directly tied to the value of your ship and fit. And if you ever want to have a hope and a prayer at ever earning your own faction titan in the next 5 years, well it won’t happen under these changes for sure.

Again, I’ve never botted in this game, and that’s the real problem. Cutting the profit for ratting in the bigger ships presents more problems than it could ever hope to solve. Not only will the mechanism to remove value from the elites be all but removed, the players that once ratted will stop and find other more profitable/safer ways to make isk (or outright leave the game) and your botters are going to seize on that really messing up the economy. It’s a domino shitstorm waiting to happen.

474

So what you’re saying is that with smart ship choice you can minimize the risk of loss, and that your problems with needing to replace a supercapital a week are entirely self-inflicted?

worked very well

Only if you consider supercapital proliferation to be “working very well”.

and if they’re smart about it, they can make it quick.

We’re talking about farming content that is so easy that a bot can do it, with local and supercapital umbrellas providing near-perfect safety. Don’t flatter yourselves. You’re succeeding entirely because nullsec ISK faucets are absurdly out of balance and even the most basic level of competence is enough to get rich.

I’m not the bad player

So says the person who thinks you need to make enough ISK to replace a supercapital a week to survive in nullsec, and can’t even grasp basic concepts like how to effectively use cheaper ships.

That’s just ridiculous to take those example (and relative) stats and try and use it like that lol.

Hey, you’re the one who made the comparison and posted those stats. If it’s ridiculous then you have only yourself to blame.

475

OK, here’s my bling fit: 1139dps with Fury, 439hp/s raw boost

[Praxis, :clubs:Mr Deadly​:diamonds:]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Sentient Damage Control
‘Deuce’ Co-Processor I
ML-EKP ‘Polybolos’ Ballistic Control System
ML-EKP ‘Polybolos’ Ballistic Control System

Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithum C-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Cap Recharger II
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
1400mm ‘Scout’ Artillery I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I

‘Augmented’ Praetor x9

Scourge Precision Heavy Missile x1100
Inferno Precision Heavy Missile x1340
Scourge Fury Heavy Missile x2841
Republic Fleet EMP L x237
EMP L x7537
Guristas Mjolnir Heavy Missile x1300
Mjolnir Precision Heavy Missile x731
Nova Fury Heavy Missile x3321
Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x15871
Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile x2902
Nova Precision Heavy Missile x2100
Dual 425mm ‘Scout’ Autocannon I x1

(if you really need to ask what’s with the single 1400, you never ratted active with drones)

tick
(took a hit after someone in fleet landed on my site)

Scaled back to the 60mill fititng:

[Praxis, *Simulated Praxis Fitting]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

X-Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II

‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I
‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I
‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I
‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I
‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I
‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I
1400mm ‘Scout’ Artillery I

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Praetor II x9

Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x28134
Guristas Scourge Heavy Missile x4964

ticks in that run around the 25-28 mark

476

Have you considered selling tickets to this event?

477

Let me guess, you rat 23 hours out of the day, every day of the week to earn enough isk to ensure you have a few decent ships in your hanger if someone needs you?

That doesn’t add up to me, the math seems bad; with faction titans being 1 trillion isk, and faction supers being 100 billion, I don’t see how it is you’re sitting in nullsec in a cheap fit whatever making that isk fast enough to achieve such a goal. The goal of this game is to be useful. That means having an arsenal of ships at your disposal (and I’ll admit, that doesn’t mean you have to have a super in that arsenal). But that’s simply not happening if your ratting is peanuts. And from what you just said, this nerf is going to hit you pretty hard too.

The bigger point here is that you’re arguing for a system of less risk for more reward which adds more fuel to the problem you claim the game has.

Umm, yeah. That happens when a game grows in age. People get to the end-game. You don’t keep making things at the end-game harder to get - you add more end-game that’s harder to get.

Again, bots are the problem - I’ve been rather repetitive on that. You don’t treat a bullet wound with a bandaid. That’s what this is. We’re addressing a botting issue by nerfing an entire play-style. This is some James 3:16 ■■■■■■■■. If you want to get rid of bots, then CCP needs to put a screen capture on clients so they can see what the client sees when they have suspicions. Other games do this and they’re very good at rooting out hackers (and botters) because these programs inject themselves into the executable and present modifications to the client (and graphics).

But again, I feel that’s what this is all about right here. I felt it when I first read the blog. Typical CCP to try and fix something with the wrong damned tool.

As I said, good players aren’t the ones asking for the game to be changed to make them good. That’s typically reserved for the role of a bad player.

1 Like
478

Be a hell of a way to make some change, huh? ‘Titan Thunderdome for System Ratings’…

479

JFC. Do you honestly not understand the concept of “fly cheaper ships”?

People get to the end-game.

And this is exactly the problem. EVE wasn’t supposed to have an endgame, but CCP screwed up capital balance and made them into endgame ships and then made it worse by making them too easy to build in mass numbers. Now they’re finally starting to take some long overdue steps to fix the problem.

you add more end-game that’s harder to get.

This is idiotic in a sandbox game and just leads to power creep and stat inflation. It works in a linear “theme park” game like WoW, where you’re perfectly fine with making older content obsolete, it would be catastrophic in EVE.

We’re addressing a botting issue by nerfing an entire play-style.

No, we’re addressing a broader play style by nerfing it. Even if bots didn’t exist nullsec farming would still be a problem that needs to be fixed.

As I said, good players aren’t the ones asking for the game to be changed to make them good.

I’m not asking for the game to be changed to make me good. This change makes my life harder as well. The difference though is that you are a helpless perma-victim whining about it on the forums, while I’m figuring out how to adapt and continue to succeed.

481

Yes, which means you make less isk. Again, this is risk vs reward. You’re literally advocating for higher reward for less risk while at the same time arguing against it. I know my point was vague on that topic.

And I don’t mind the ships going up in price. I’m telling you though that removing the ability to create isk will be a catastrophic mistake. The only way they can offset this is by allowing players to outright buy isk from their store which I vehemently oppose. But, mark my words, it’s likely already being talked about in the CCP directorship.

Adding bigger ships, harder enemies, etc with the current balance of eve would not be catastrophic at all. In fact, they’ve been doing it for years. They just haven’t taken any big steps into that arena.

No, if bots didn’t exist, I’m fairly confident in stating that null sec farming wouldn’t be a problem at all and no one would complain about it. There aren’t many people who are legitimately willing to sit behind a pc and watch the game do the same thing over and over again (also known as grinding which is a dying sport in this new age of on-demand everything).

But something tells me we’re talking about this affecting a neglected alt.

1 Like
482

And, again, it means you need less ISK. Why is this so hard to understand?

I’m telling you though that removing the ability to create isk will be a catastrophic mistake.

Fortunately nobody is advocating this and CCP is not doing it, so your straw man is irrelevant.

Adding bigger ships, harder enemies, etc with the current balance of eve would not be catastrophic at all.

Do you not understand what power creep and stat inflation are?

There aren’t many people who are legitimately willing to sit behind a pc and watch the game do the same thing over and over again (also known as grinding which is a dying sport in this new age of on-demand everything).

Um. What. Have you seen the highsec threads where people go on and on about the importance of their “play style” doing exactly that?

483

Self respect?

484

The game offers many play styles, and i agree that players should be free to choose what they enjoy. What is funny is, with Quantum cores, which heavily impacts small casual groups, the PvPer’s just kept repeating “if you can’t defend it, should you have it”. in this case, they did say the shift would happen over days or weeks. So you may not be able to walk out your front door and rat yourself into a new ship when ever you feel like it. All in all, I’d like to see how this plays out

1 Like
485

I just got off the test server. I can see a massive abuse of fw gate mechanic by parking a bunch of smart bombing battleships on the edge of the warp bubble and nuking everything like RnK did and a regular basis. Didn’t notice that MWD use was restricted, but since everything in eve is already too fast I won’t shed a tear.

486

You clearly have no idea how much most capital pilots hate having to renew their insurance when they could just replace the capital.