What if they remove losses from PvP? Say your victim appears on the station with the same ship/fit as was just destroyed?
Will you do the same? Will you have fun killing stuff knowing that its owners do not care?
Edit: you know what? Let’s make even stupider example. Instead of “destroyed” ship reappearing on the station (which can be useful for some purposes) as you land “killing blow” you get message “Congratulations! You won!” and both ships continue doing whatever they were doing prior? 
And yet they’ve nerfed them by removing skillbooks from the abyss drop tables which were one of the major high income loot items.
Then the game would fold.
That’s a stupid analogy. Reducing the profit from an activity, PvP or PvE, is not in any way comparable to “what if they removed the idea that actions have permanent consequences while simultaneously destroying the entire EVE economy and removing industry as a viable profession”.
I can’t speak for anybody else, but I’ve already said I will be flabbergasted if players haven’t figured out a way to game this within the first week.
The relevant question is not ‘can players game it’ but ‘can players game it in a large enough way to matter’
If they are eating insurance dreads to keep the index at 60%, given there is also a mineral shortage, is it important long term game health.
Without knowing if it is a linear calculation etc, this sort of question can’t be easily answered.
No. The point is that if an alliance is that good at protecting their space then they’re playing too cautiously, blobbing up into a small amount of territory to ensure overwhelming odds against any conceivable attack. If you’re making a more ambitious claim to territory and spreading out across a larger region, allowing conflict to happen, then even if you win every fight defending your territory you get the PvP bonus.
My point was more reducing the entry points, if you rat at the end of a pipe and bubblefuck gatecamp the pipe several systems away, you’re nerfing yourself rather than protecting yourself. Similarly if you roll your WHs as a lot of alliances have done in the past, you’re reducing the amount of people entering your region. Again, there’s no reason to spend the time and effort doing that now.
Take the Goons example, I personally avoided roaming in Delve because it was a fortress at times, they built that reputation by fiercely defending their space.
Binary thinking is a sickness
What is the point of building a castle if you’re not to protect it?
Meanwhile the competent alliances will figure out how to defend their ISK and continue operations.
The last one is your quote from ESS thread. Like… can you be more consistent?
So alliance is ought to be good but not too god, they simply have to feed some to attackers because they have to?
How about the attackers, are they gonna spare some ratters or are they gonna murder every_single_one they can find? If so, in this case defenders can deny attackers their success to the very extent of their possibilities.
P.S. being “that” good = playing too cautiously. Just wow.
It’s entirely consistent. If you have a choice between controlling 3 farming systems with overkill defense that never allows any threat to even enter the system vs. controlling 10 farming systems with enough defense to win every fight then the alliance that has greater ambitions gets to profit more. If you’re so terrified of PvP that you’re willing to sacrifice territory claims to go from “safe” to “virtually untouchable” then you get less.
So alliance is ought to be good but not too god, they simply have to feed some to attackers because they have to?
Or kill attackers. Successfully defending your space by killing the enemy counts as PvP and boosts your farming ISK.
Exactly the point! If you only rat at the end of the pipe in one system instead of ratting in every system you get less ISK. You’re safer, but your excessive caution has a price.
I do wonder how you will react on alliance murderzoning attackers, literally butchering them to a degree that krabs can krab relatevily safe
Tbh given how the payouts increase for PvP areas, that sounds just like a great idea.
If we actively engage in pvp in an entry point to a pipe, say we clear a fleet of 25 dirty wormholers, how does that impact the systems we’ve protected later in the pipe is my concern. When a fleet enters a pipe again, the best way to engage them is to cover the exit system.
What if nobody bothers to roam your space?
Say day 1 my alliance is crying out for pvp content, promotes coming to their space on the forums for the pvp fun and generally gets fully engaged with the update… However, in seeing this, prospective roamers think they’ll go gank some ratters elsewhere as they know they won’t put up as much of a fight.
That’s penalizing the alliance wanting to actively engage in pvp.
That’s a double-edge sword as what is most likely going to happen is that some groups will turn tail and run the moment they run into any sort of credible resistance because they’re not actually looking for a fight, they’re just looking for soft targets to kill. Other groups, however, will take note of your willingness to fight and they will begin making frequent returns because of the fact your group is willing to fight and not just dock up the moment anything shows up. Speaking from personal experience.
Why does it matter? The system you killed them in gets the PvP multiplier and you can farm it.
Incredibly unlikely. If you offer constant fights someone is going to take the offer, unless by “fights” you mean “we drop 500 capitals on your 5 man gang”.
I see You don’t want to answer. I think it is because I’m right.
Okey, let’s try less absurd approach: someone crazily rich (someone called March Rabbit) will closely watch You and refund any PvP losses incurred by You. Anyone who lost anything after engagement with You will “lose nothing”.
Let’s add that wallet of this crazy person is large enough so you cannot realistically deplete it.
Also Your shenanigans with killing Your own alts won’t affect the size of wallet.
At the end You can get richer (by tricking this strange person) but overall Your PvP will be just for fun (read: meaningless).
Will You still do PvP knowing this? Will You spend the same amount of time and effort doing this?
One
wont make a difference. Keep trying.