Got me thinking this is just a FPS game? Don’t worry, I like those too.
Entry system could be a -0.1 last system in pipe could be a -0.9.
I could get behind these changes if security status was normalised.
In my experience, no. People will be more attracted to the weaker alliances that don’t defend their space. Why go to somewhere where you know 250+ HACs are going to form when you could head up to Dek for free kills / easier ESS looting?
It’s simply the N+1 meta, even if you removed caps, the large alliances are so big that you’ll be contending with massive subcap defense fleets.
It’s also why this won’t generate war. People won’t be picking regions to roam, they’ll be picking weak alliances to roam. If Goons went and took Dek as the ratting indexes were nice and the inhabitants of Dek moved to Delve… I would imagine the roamers would switch to Delve with them, keep chasing the easier target.
You’d need the ratting indexes to literally take MONTHS to shift in order to incentivise alliances spending the months of planning needed to switch regions for a better rating multiplier. If the multiplier degraded in weeks, nobody would bother. A good 9+ months and I can also see these changes working.
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I take it as “yes, I would do PvP even if it was useless”.
Thanks
(the only question why did it take so much time?)
So things for you only have intrinsic usefulness if they generate money?
I thought the question was “Would you find PvP fun if there was no chance of a reward” not “Do you only PvP because of the reward”
PvP in general that it has many different rewards:
- loot
- killboard score
- bragging rights
- loss for other player (pain, tears, …)
- tactical/strategic benefits
- …
So the question was whether the person would do the PvP even if it didn’t generated these rewards (mainly loss for other player). I’m pretty sure most of PvP in EvE is done for loot and losses.
But an enjoyment of the actual act of playing the game and doing the task isnt on your list?
Im no big city lawyer, but it seems to me thats the intrinsic problem with nearly any activity in EvE; its not actually fun to do, its just a dopamine release for the result not the act.
This is an endemic problem in many many games now.
Be aware, I may not be disagreeing with your premise, as I too would like to know what the fun part of instigating PvP is, as I find being on the receiving end far more exciting and in that there is no intrinsic reward. (Not losing your stuff isnt a reward, losing it is a penalty for failing to do it properly)
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It is not about me. Personally I’ve never liked PvP (even when I have been hunting FW enemies in high-sec and was pretty successfull in that). It’s just not fun for me. Yes, I felt thrilled and my hands were shaking time by time but I’m not that kind of person to enjoy it.
Good loot somehow increased the interest so when pool of easy and fat FW targets depleted I’ve left FW.
The question was intended as part of discussion about ratting losing its appealing as result of reduced rewards and increased amount of effort needed to get the same reward. @Merin_Ryskin said something in line of “the activity itself hasn’t changed” and it made me try to question if activity=PvP would be still interesting for people in the same situation (the activity hasn’t changed but rewards are not there anymore).
Answering Your question precisely: I believe this is the question for persons nature. Me, is a constructor and organizer. I like to build and tune systems. So, for example, Transport Fever provides me with activity I enjoy to do independent of result. In EvE the most “fun” activities for me were PI (setting up and tuning system of harvesting, refining, reprocessing, exporting/importing and manufacturing, then tuning) and in some sense - ratting. Especially with nerfs after nerfs from CCP it is always good feeling to see results of new approach and procedure optimizing to get the same rewards at the end.
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I was just trying to find common ground considering it looked like we enjoy the same activities, though I cant do PI and I dont know what Transport Fever is. I wasnt trying to have an argument and I didnt need the dicussion explained, but thank you for that.
It would still be a boring snoozefest regardless.
Again, most tasks in EvE are dull boring and unfulfilling.
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No offence taken. I think it is better to describe my position if it is not clear enough.
Yeah, and this is the biggest issue of the game in my opinion.
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Oh totally, best not to have disagreement on a misunderstanding 
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You need kill NPCs to level up your system (SOV), OK!?
And at the same time are you taking punishment for killing NPC?
Is it the search for a balance point?
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So? The whole point of this is that you should be claiming more systems and farming all of them, not just the one best system.
It’s simply the N+1 meta
The whole point of this change is to break the N+1 meta. To maximize income you have to spread out across a large region, which means your forces are no longer as concentrated and forming up that N+1 blob takes longer.
And from the podcast it is clear what the SSP is thinking.
The main focus is on viewing Lamas while communicating with players.
Respect is felt.
It was a really good stream, allayed a couple of my concerns. Seems it will take time for ratting multipliers to adjust for many alliances. I liked the bit about someone running 5 accounts for 3 hours potentially not being impacted which solves my personal use case…
Seems the target is the drone land botters running near 24/7.
Considering the exact reverse of that happened four years ago, can confirm, this is exactly what will happen. The exact same people roam our space now as did when we were in the north.
It doesn’t. You just have capital/supercapital cover fleets sitting on a keepstar, or a subcap fleet sitting on a titan, waiting to go save people while ratting on alts.
They did a very good job of deflecting and not answering most of the questions, yes. Remember: that person running 5 accounts for 3 hours won’t be impacted… if they’re the only one ratting in the system. How often do you have the whole system to yourself? How vulnerable to things like bomber groups does that leave you?
There was a whole lot of vagueness and ‘you know where we mean’, so really, I wouldn’t assume they actually mean Oasa and the Drones. They mean to cap the amount of money someone can make, no matter how much time and work a player puts into it. Grind your ADMs up, and you’re hurting your wallet, and that’s the whole point.
Dawn did get them to spill something interesting, though, in their vision for how they want to rework IHUBs. Obviously, you can’t take anything they said on the stream as an indication of anything real until it actually hits TQ, but if they do what they suggested they want to, that could be a very good thing…
Which makes you wonder why it took them so damned long to even start talking about ‘after scarcity’. You don’t get people to stick to a diet and exercise regimen by saying ‘it’s all work and hunger, baby, don’t think about what you can do when you lose the weight’.
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For those of us without time to pick through the stream, can you share the highlights, obviously not intended as gospel.
Basically, one of the ideas they’re kicking around is making the IHUB upgrades more specialized and more of a tradeoff. The example given was ‘maybe you want to get access to resources not normally available in null, or more of a particular type of mineral’, so things like (as Dawn put it, and CCP Psych agreed), maybe Brave wants to be the Kings of Spod. They can put in the right configuration to get lots of spodumain in a particular system. Someone else might config a system for more ratting. Someone else might set one up for Trit, etc.
Similar, in some ways, to @Caleb_Ayrania’s ideas for ‘more built-up systems shouldn’t have as many rats, because they’re more secure’. And if that’s the route they go, it could be really good.
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Assuming it’s separated from the ADM’s as well, that sounds a great idea. As you then have the trade offs of if you use all your systems for ratting you don’t get to use them for other things.
If they go that way I’d like to see weaker options for all areas of space, even if it’s not sov claimable. As if you let Null separate themselves economically again then you need to provide the other areas of space at least limited access to economic materials again.
Possibly localized schemes for lowsec/j-space, with HS being the ‘baseline’, or something, yeah.
And I don’t know that they’d separate it from the ADMs so much as (hopefully) making the ADMs more accurately capture everything being done in a system.