Contesting Loot


(Omnathious Deninard) #1

This idea will affect high sec the most, only because of how crime watch is handled in all other sections of new eden.

It would also require changing how loot drops are determined, highest damage would get the loot if no contesting occurs.

So the idea in short, if two players attack the same target (more details on what constitutes a target later) and deal within 20% damage of each other a popup comes up asking to contest the loot, if both players agree to contesting the loot, a duel between the players and access to the loot is removed from both players until one of the ships is destroyed.
If only one players contests the loot and the other player declines the loot goes to whoever was willing to contest it.
If both players decline contesting the loot, then the loot follows normal rules for loot drops.

As a fail safe should someone contest loot and leave the loot would turn to a normal wreck based on how the other player left; If the player is DC the wreck returns to a normal state after 5 minutes, if the players warps off and is more than 3 systems away they are deemed to have forfeit the fight and the loot will go to the remaining player.

A contestable target is one that carries one of the following.
Faction module, dead space module, officer module, any kind BPC, implant. (I’m sure there are more types that I cant think of off the top of my head)

If there are more than 2 players who participate in the killing of a target then the same rules would still apply but checking for all players who dealt within 20% damage to the target.

EX: 3 players, one who does 20% damage another who deals 30% damage and the last does 50% damage, the 30% and the 50% damage players would get the chance to fight over the loot, while the 20% would be left out.
EX2: 4 players, one players does 70% damage and the other 3 only do 10% damage normal drop rules would apply.


(Arthur Aihaken) #2

Highest damage does get the loot drop. And you can “contest” this by stealing the loot if you so desire. In PvE wrecks and cans are owned by the mission leader, but those in a fleet can of course loot and salvage. I don’t see anything wrong with the current mechanics.


(Omnathious Deninard) #3

[quote=“Arthur_Aihaken, post:2, topic:76522, full:true”]
Highest damage does get the loot drop. [/quote]

When did this change? For many many years last shot gets the loot.

I’m well aware of how current mechanics work, they aren’t much of a conflict driver however, And are as a general rule a rather boring way of fighting over something.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #4

… there are loads of fights that happen involving people stealing each others loot. bother from other player ships and from PvE. hell one of the main reason people loved the past events was because it caused this exact thing. how exactly is racing to a can and trying to get out before your killed or shooting off others trying to get the same loot as you boring? particularly when your idea just involves the same shooting at people only less dynamically.


(Old Pervert) #5

So what you’re saying is all I need to do is probe down mission runners, shoot their rat to get into a duel with them, and then gank them?


(Alpha Askiras) #6

This^

Basically, it allows people who are trying to steal loot in a bigger ship be able to without needing to go suspect


(Arthur Aihaken) #7

Yeah. No.


(Omnathious Deninard) #8

If there rat contains the correct type of flag for a duel, then yes.


(Old Pervert) #9

+1 for this, the salt to be harvested is incredible. Worst case, when they need to grab certain loot from certain rats, if they don’t contest, I take their loot and sell it. Maybe back to them. It won’t be an efficient isk generating activity, but their corn flakes will certainly taste of piss.


(Nisanthro) #10

Third player comes and takes the loot as usual. Or should the loot container be locked to anyone not involved in the “loot duel”? That doesn’t sound broken at all…

o/


(Dior Ambraelle) #11

Would the players get a notification about the content of the loot they are about to fight for, or they both need to go to 2.5 km range and check it first? In case of 2 sniper fitts this could take a while, which would result in potential waste of time for both of them.
Or would they get a notification when one of them gets in 2.5 km distance to check it? In which case the one that checks it could simply steal it if he isn’t in scram range of the other.


(Ageanal Olerie) #12

Yeah I’m calling complete and utter b.s. on this claim.

Frankly I’d be surprised if even 1% of the time this happens does a fight ensue.

The guy in the bigger ship gets the kill on the loot dropper, no matter how much effort the other guy put in to get there, and the guy in the faster ship grabs the loot, going suspect and warping away from someone who’s typically not fit to stop him, and more often than not even if he could has to decide if he wants to risk losing his ship as well as the loot.

But while we’re on the subject. Any anomalies (any sites immediately visible on your overview or scanner) should go invisible as soon as the first NPC is fired upon (or destroyed), and then can only be found if it (and you) are scanned down.

If someone is THAT interested in harassing site runners and contesting their loot, getting in to a fight with them, or ganking them, then they ought to have to work for it a little bit more.

And for those of us who are decent people and warp off when we come upon a site someone else is running, it would be nice if we didn’t even see it in the overview/scanner to waste our time warping out to it.


(Solstice Projekt) #13

The OP seems to have forgotten to mention why this is actually needed. As far as I can tell, loot already is being contested when someone else comes in and wants to steal it.

Ignoring possible abuse do I only see downsides for those who want to steal your loot.

What is the point of this?


(Ameko Tanaka) #14

Exactly, I also am pretty sure that loot is already contested and “awarded” to the main damage dealer, right?
This could be experienced during that Guristas Easter event.

I’m ok with the current situation.
But some kind of “diceroll” with the same probability distribution as the damage dealt would be fine, too - for all damage dealers involved.
(-> you did 30 % of the damage, you have a 30 % chance to get the loot rights - still does not prevent others from stealing, of course)


(Solstice Projekt) #15

Well… no. I mean, sure, but the word “awarded” puts it all into the wrong frame, even with quotation marks.

Fact is that loot belongs to the one who takes it and keeps it. Everything else is just theory and wordsmithing. The colours of wrecks, and ownership, are irrelevant. When I steal your loot and get away with it, then it is mine. (assuming no one takes it from me until i store it in a station, of course)

An actually fair change, for the sake of competition, would be wiping ownership mechanics, because they mean nothing and only hinder the general flow of goods. I know, it could not be implemented in such a simple manner, but it would be fair nonetheless.

I guess I need to expand on this, because someone will scream “HOWISITFAIRIDOALLTHEWORKYADDAYADDA”.

Yes, you do the work. The outcome, though, will be the same,
regardless of any ownership mechanics, flags or whatnot:

Your loot is mine.


(Dior Ambraelle) #16

Allow me to disagree with this.
Contesting event sites is often a waste of time, unless your only plan is to steal the loot. I know it from experience that with a proper fit you can do multiple sites for “granted” loot during the time another player finishes his site, that you could contest for a much smaller chance of the loot.
Also, I don’t know if it only happens to me, but almost every time a contester appears at my site, they rarely stay. And I doubt a RLML Gila would be scary enough to make even battleships leave.


(Solstice Projekt) #17

It is a waste of time for those who suck all the fun out of the game and who have no other purpose than wasting their time grinding for isk, instead of just buying PLEX and actually having fun.

Yeah.


(Old Pervert) #18

Shrug, I’m not there for the loot. If I’m in an active duel, I get to donkey punch a mission runner in a blinged ship. If I’m not, I just engage the dude that just went suspect. Either way, content happens.

Not saying I actually like this idea, just saying that’s how I’d use it.


(Dior Ambraelle) #19

The topic is about loot and not ISK, but now that you mentioned it…

Are you suggesting that everyone who is currently doing any form of PvE should start doing PvP only instead (as it is “intended”)?

Because it would have a horrible effect on the game’s economy, starting with the fact that the game would literally consume all of it’s ISK supply most likely in a few months, because the only way money enters the market is through PVE. After that you would need to use PLEX and contracts to buy or sell anything.
Without PvE there is no LP either, except for FW, which would significantly reduce the amount of faction modules and ammo the game has, while at the same time their price would hit the sky - a carrier for a Caldari Navy Warp Scrambler seems like a fair trade right? At least until the game runs out of insignias too, because those are needed, and are coming from PvE.
Also, no more pirate BPCs or T3 components either, because no one will bother doing data and relic sites instead of PvP.
So at the end, the best equipment you could have is T2, which would break a significant amount of fits that are currently using faction/pirate/officer modules because of their fitting requirements.

Let’s see if someone can explain where exactly I am wrong.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #20

the idea isn’t even to steal the loot though… it’s to grab the loot and get the guy who was running it to shoot.