What are you talking about.
Have you not seen the 20’000 member alliance that is thriving in hisec and has nothing to do with null blocs?
The one that didnt exist before the wardec changes, and that disbanded again when it got wardeced through a loophole, and then formed again when the loophole was fixed and they could live in peace thanks to the wardec changes again?
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That alliance has like horrible activity rates and got most of there member based from spamming jita, these same players would likely have been in NPC corps, like yes there “active” as in there ticker is around.
There also not a Merc group, like you likely don’t known this because you where not active in highsec but before the wardec and especially the watchlist changes like wardecs where used for more then well sitting at the jita undock.
Like the creation of jita spam corps ( as there not the only one ) feel like a really bad trade for losing all the smaller groups that engaged in like player vs player combat in highsec outside of jita, all of those players went away in favor of an alliance of mission runners, that decreases content for people that like to like shoot at people.
Edit: More importantly how is the creation of a bunch of jita spammers like a succes? and it also doesn’t address the war mechanics themselves as this alliance could exist if we literally made a opt out of war button on the alliance GUI that disallows anchoring of structures, like less people using a game mechanic after it has been changed is like a strange measure for success.
Big nullblocs saw no benefits from the war dec changes. We are still war decced constantly, we still almost never notice. It makes things slightly more of a pain when randomly wandering Jita. That’s it. Same as it was before.
The changes were not made to benefit nullsec blocs, they were made to retain new players who were getting griefed out of the game. Now they aren’t.
You known last time pirat needed a batphone horde was there for them right along with test?
Here is how null blocs benefit:
TTT it would be a 700 million isk bill to shoot that thing once ( because reality check if test goons and horde ping to kill some HS rat it’s gonna die ), so this would be a repeat cost for anybody wanting to do even like some harassment, this provides well a barrier to entry.
Jump Freighter logistics being able to put all those guy’s in a logistic corp is like a MASSIVE benefit your not telling me that adding pilots and removing them from the ACL for every logi pilot isn’t a massive pain this harassment is now impossible, as there just in a dec immune corp this reduces administrative overhead.
Those to alone are massive, what did highsec get jita spam corps the last few people that did things other then sit on the jita undock killing dumb newbro’s well quit the game or moved somewhere else because well undock camping isn’t exactly fun.
So i would qualify mass wardecs in general as a bad mechanic, where as i would qualify wardecs that have objectives in mind ( citadels or even controlling a area against mission running extortion etc to be good wardecs ) especially when they happen between groups of equal size because it allows both sides to fight, now the current wardec system benefits those how camp the jita undock massively ( there cost got lowered ) while it harms those that would extort a single corp as there cost got increased to the point where doing so is literally pointless.
The CSM created a system that removed all the benefits of the old system ( namely that you could fight smaller groups as smaller group that engagements could happen that you could hunt for people’s mission system etc ) while keeping all the negatives that groups would mass declare wars and sit in jita all day to catch haulers.
Like literally the eco system could not be made worse if you actively tried because all the small groups got killed and merged into pirat or just died, like there is literally no diversity left among wardec groups no competition internally no fighting how is that a good thing ?
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If somebody wants to actually shoot that thing, the money isn’t an issue, lol.
That’s what we had to do before. Nobody was complaining about it. It was part of being a diplo.
What the GAME got was one less thing that was forcing new players out just as they were making the critical transition out of NPC corps to real corps.
The CSM didn’t create anything. We pushed CCP to address the issue, and they developed the current mechanics. And the whole idea that the old system allowed smaller groups to fight smaller groups wasn’t really reflected in the data, but to the extent it was, isn’t precluded under the current system either. That the smaller groups decided to merge into PIRAT is on them. There’s nothing about the new system that forces them to get larger or die.
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You null blob guys are all the same.
Yes it is because, if it was let’s say free almost everyone would take a pop shot at it every couple of weeks forcing a formup with resulting blue balls to follow, the barrier doesn’t prevent anybody that could fight GSF/TEST and horde at same time but it does prevent somebody from well being a pest, in a Darwinism style harassment campaign without sinking in citadels every like 8 days.
The lower you make the barrier to something the more people do it.
I have spoken to plenty of diplo’s that complained about that because it was a pain to manage and with corps getting bigger it only becomes worse, it also meant you had to trust more people to manage it all it was a soft growth limiter but absolutely both are not massive benefits but they are benefits.
given you claim was
That seems to be objectively wrong, unless you can show me there not benefits at all, i don’t care how minor i was addressing your specific claim of 0 there showing a result of 0.1 is good enough.
It’s easy to make sacrifices for the good of the game when it’s not your play style.
Schrodinger CSM we present the changes CCP made as are succes stories but call us out on it and CCP did it not us, either take responsibility or don’t put it forward as CSM succes you pick.
Post watchlist changes that became reduced i absolutely agree and most of the data ccp presented is post watchlist, you can make reasonable estimates from api data, but reference’s secret data is also a bit useless because well unless the data is public it’s almost impossible for anybody to verify, more importantly how did they control for bigger merc groups because i suspect the people that didn’t get nerfed are the reason the data looked the way it did it wasn’t the guy’s that had 1 or 2 active wars open, that where the problem here and those are the people that got deleted.
Like there is the whole system is setup that you have to mechanically merge into the bigger wardec group or be blue them.
Because any 3rd party can declare war on you and forcibly end your wars and it’s almost if merc do this stuff for money. so if your a smaller merc group you better have a good enough relationship with the bigger groups not to have you structure deleted every 2 weeks.
This forces you to get well bigger, and ideally build up bat phones, like you can’t pick you target or deny the fight if they hire a bigger group to come shoot you, all you can do is feed the structure sure you could do that but like if there is no postive isk income doing so you will at some point run out of money, now most people are smart enough to see the problem coming and just don’t bother with step 1 as they don’t wanna pay for a citadel like every 2 weeks, shocker i known.
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Liar. Shooting similar structures in lowsec or null is free yet you don’t see people bothering. Implying that the wardec costs are what’s keeping people from attacking the keepstar shows you have zero idea what you are talking about, and just looking for an excuse to be lazy and beg ccp to do your work for you.
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Are you for real? People shoot down structures in lowsec all the time.
This statement honestly sounds like your confirmation bias at work. He’s done big things, he’s allowed a little bit of snark.
I said big things, not big dumb things. 
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Yeah, that’s pointless. It’s not engaging content for anybody.
The intent behind the change had nothing to do with nullsec. None of us pushed the idea because it would help our diplos in processing JF alt sanctioning requests. That idea is ludicrous. You can read the minutes of CSM 13 and it’s clear why we supported it - the data CCP had demonstrated that the existing mechanic was driving new players out of the game at an alarming rate.
Period. That’s why it was done.
And we’ve all made sacrifices when it was our playstyle.
Nope. CSM influences changes, makes recommendations, and provides feedback. It doesn’t design game changes - CCP does that. Even when we present fully formed proposals, CCP has to make those happen. Sure, we take credit when something we pushed gets attention and implementation - I am proud of the work we did fixing war decs on CSM 13 - but in the end, CCP makes the final decisions on how things are programmed and how the mechanics work.
CCP wouldn’t have dumped the resources into fixing this issue if it didn’t need to be fixed. It would have gone somewhere else. The war dec change was a significant change that required months of work.
Why? There’s nothing forcing you do to this.
So this forces you to take fights you can get, actually talk to other groups, and if the defenders decide to fight back, you have to figure out how to beat them?
Wow, that sucks. You have to play the game? What a horrible mechanic.
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Oh is that so. We’re talking about a keepstar in case you have lost the plot. When is the last time Basgerin KS got shot at?
You have no clue how this game works. Stick to parroting your anti-null memes that’s what you are here for.
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Where also talking about a keepstar that has no doomsday doesn’t have caps to defend it, that is like over 20 jumps from hostile staging like this structure is massively more limited then your average keepstar.
Plus i gave you an example of this very thing happening in nullsec, as a data point.
Namely the fights between darwinism and GSF where they used there staging advantage to constantly force formups on the hostile site until they got objective wins, is it exactly analogy’s no, but we see this thing happening in the game today so it’s not that much of a leap that people figure it out.
Also keep in mind this was to disproof a particular claim that it provides NO benefits, i will grant you that every couple of weeks is a bit hyperbolic on my part, but would it prevent 1 attack per year on the shield timer i would say yes to that, meaning it provides a benefit aka the thing i set out to proof.
Again your position was no benefit, if you position has changed to minor benefit fair enough.
When was the last time CCP completely delete you playstyle ? for the good of new players ( i mean literally made it impossible to do ), because that’s what where talking about here they mechanically removed a way of playing the game.
I don’t see why you proud, this worked you whipped out a high-sec playstyle by doing so you made active players quit the game and you created jita scam corps as a new feature in the game like how is any of this good?
Like keep in mind the emergency fix here isn’t the issue it’s the complete linking of wars to citadels that has the mechanical problems.
CCP has dump resources in niche’s before so i wouldn’t say that with complete confidence, like CCP made many changes that where for the NPE that really are of questionable benefit so it would not be the first time something got wrapped into think of the new players that was a horrible change to the game.
For example skill injectors.
Sure nothing is forcing me to but here is the thing most players like to not lose all the time so when you make the winning moving to join a bigger group they will general do this, that’s exactly the problem everywhere in the game right now and the source of are stagnation problem.
It’s not just the defenders it’s literally everyone they can hire get to fight on there side, it becomes very much a n+1 game, so this means most people will quickly flock to the biggest bloc they can find ( and this is why everyone joined pirat ).
More importantly you where told this by multiple people in the merc community the day it was announced, because this was really predictable.
Yes sure not losing is a choice but really if you give people a choice between lose or join a bigger group well people join a bigger group this is sorta how you create stagnation as the groups become more generalized less specialized and larger.
The benefit is so miniscule it is essentially meaningless. It wasn’t a motivation for pushing the change. If you want to be pedantic to feel like you’ve scored a point, that’s fine. But in the end, nobody was pushing this change out of some kind of benefit to their group, which is what you accused us of.
The playstyle wasn’t completely deleted. Come on, dude.
There are more players playing the game now than before. That’s how it’s good.
/sigh
You don’t have to merge corps to do that.
Again, you are complaining that you have to find a way to beat the other side. That’s literally what you’re complaining about.
Pardon me if I have little sympathy for that position.
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Oke the things used to be done with wardecs:
- mission running extortion, completely gone there all 1 man corps without a structure at 0% tax.
- incursion runners same deal,
- Structure extortion still possible but heavily timer based and heavily N+1 unlike the old pos system you can’t even set the freaking day.
- controlling mining rocks well that’s not gonna happen because no structure’s.
Like all most all of the old extortion options are just no longer there ( and that isn’t just for new players like new players barely have money so it’s often not worth it you went for like the 10 man corp with your hand full of guy’s and some did fight and sometimes you get screwed it happens, i’m still friendly with some of the people that turned out to have teeth ).
But outside of structure based play it’s all literally no longer possible so yes deleted seems the right word for it, the only thing that’s left is freaking timer grinds with the reality that you doing it at 4 AM on Tuesday if they don’t pay ( you can’t just ignore the structure because if that word gets out your screwed ) and have to risk often about the same value meaning that if it’s a 20 man corp and your hand full of dudes well yeah don’t even bother ).
Like to not lose a massive amount of money on citadels you quickly have to become the same risk adverse coward as how all the other wardeccers now play and really that is just not for me, i won’t sit there gate camping all day until that 1 guy in horde undocks.
No but really pirat isn’t gonna blue my hand full of friends so you roll the corp into the alliance or you don’t get the play.
No because if i win or lose isn’t the problem i can win the fights and they’re still boring, like there isn’t trill there you counted correctly good job, like a particularly clever 3 year old could pull it off for smaller fleets.
Like the point that you seem to ignore is that most of this stuff wasn’t n+1 before all the changes a smaller force could like get stuff done because it wasn’t 1 or 2 big static fights.
They’re… contraction of ‘they are’
Thanks, not a native English speaker, but that should be clear at this point because that’s unlikely to be my only spelling mistake.