So much this.
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Most of your points were already discussed. But one point:
Well, after 1 day I flew Dessies, after 1 week Cruisers and after 1 month my first BC. I still have no Idea how to assemble capital ships, but thatās a question of learning and skilling.
Do you really think newbies should start with battleships before they know how to tank properly or handle different ship types of enemies? They just burn ISK that way, because each new step always looks very expensive: Frig 200k ā Dessie 1m ā Cruiser 10m ā Battlecruiser 50m ā Battleship 150m - and thatās just for the T1-vessel.
Word!
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No matter how you look at it, that bonus shouldnāt take an entire month to train. And yes I understand there are ways to mitigate that, but there isnāt any good reason why it should take 20- 30 days to train 1 skill that gives a 2% bonus. Even if the bonus was higher.
No other game, and no successful game requires you to wait months and months just to be able to attempt to play that class. Imagine starting an MMO trying to be a warrior and the game said,āNo you canāt be a warrior yet, you have to wait 6 months, for now you can be a security guard instead.ā
It makes no sense. And mind you there is no issue in other MMOs with taking months to get better gear and level up. But this game stops you from flying the āTYPEā of ship you want to fly. Like If I want to be a āhealerā type of ship in this game or some sort of support. I have to wait to learn all of these skills to even attempt to do it, not to be good at it, but to even fly the ship at all. That isnāt fun.
Iām not saying give away all ships at once, but these 4 week long training sessions are too much. Like I said if there were skill points rewards alongside the time skill points then it would be ok.
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Each race has a tech 1 logistics frigate and cruiser and training to fly then effectively takes about 2 weeks maximum.
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If you gonna compare something next time be sure that both things (games) have something similar. Not only that both are MMO.
You still donāt understand that flying titan doesnāt mean you are more pro than 5 mil SP alpha or you end EVE. This is sandbox. You create content for yourself. You can create corp full of alphas and gank people in hisec. You can be part of big battles just in destroyer etc.
Skills or your time in game means almost nothing in eve. Just quit and go play your stupid games where you just slain monsters and in day become good of universe. EVE is not for people like you.
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Also, the reason why skills only have small bonuses is because most of the time you arenāt required to train them to 5. Most modules and ships only require lvl 4 to be trained. You get 80% of the skills value with s fraction of the training required. You do not need to train all skills to max.
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Donāt train it then. Thatās what people arenāt understanding. A new player sees how long it takes to get a skill from 4-5 and decides the game is too long and is ālocking him out of good contentā with a huge wait for that lvl5 skill. In truth he never needed that lvl5 skill or in fact the vast majority of other lvl5 skills. Some lvl5 are required to get into a new class of ship or mod, other than those you donāt need any lvl5ās.
Stop pretending you need lvl5 skills to enjoy / be good at EvE, it is not the case. Equivelant lvl4 skills would take approx 10-20% the time and give you 90% the bonus. LvL3ās and 4ās are midgame, not lvl5ās.
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And you thinks its reasonable for a new player to buy a game and wait half of his first month cycle to be able to simply fly a basic ship?
I donāt understand that logic.
Iām not saying everyone should get every ship on day 1. Iām simply saying that non carrier class ships shouldnāt take months to be able to fly and equip with basic gear. A new player might be able to learn quickly, have a helpful guild and do all their homework and research, but they still would have to takes months to be able to participate.
And everyone is still talking about combat ships. What about mining and industrial ships. Why does it take 20+ days for me to get just the last level of mining barge. That is stopping me from using the next level of ships. And for what? I know how to mine, I understand the risk and cost of flying tier 2 mining barges.
Things like that gate me from playing the game. Itās not a huge deal to me, but it is annoying. And lots of other players will just leave the game.
Once again Iām not talking about being able to fly every ship on day 1. But there should be faster progression. It takes months to be able to decently fly certain T1 ships, and that is just for 1 faction.
I donāt understand at all how it hurts the game to allow players to earn skill points at the end of missions. By flying missions they have to play the game, if they have to fly a bunch of combat missions then they will learn how to fight better. Which will make them better at the game and more capable of flying different types of ships.
A player doesnāt even have to play the game right now to increase skills. Itās simply a matter of time or money. I can buy skill injectors. So time in this game is not an indicator of skill or knowledge.
Increasing skill point production through actually playing the game will allow players to gain more knowledge and will reward participation in actually playing the game. You canāt even take a battleship or battle cruiser to early level missions so itās not like a new player is going to buy them before they can utilize them.
And if a player wants to use them in pvp and can afford it then why do you care what they do. They would still need to spend some time learning the skills to fly the ship, and equip the modules. It just doesnāt need to take AS MUCH time.
Thatās all Iām saying, keep timed skill ques, just lower the time and allow players to physically grind for skill points if they choose to.
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You donāt need to buy anything.
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As was stated previously, to fly a tech 1 - frigate well takes 1-3 days skill-wise. To fly a tech 1 - cruiser well takes about a week, 1,5 weeks. At that point you have trained about 70-80% of the skills relevant to those ships trained.
Itās not actually the character-skills that are the biggest problem for new players. Itās the player-skills they havenāt learnt yet. You could give a new player all skills to fly a fancy tech 2 -cruiser from day 1 and they would lose it to a veteran with a new character and a frigateā¦ The skill-training forces you to learn how to fly the ships and how the mechanics work.
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You need science level 5 before you access R&D. That means that training the 5th level prevents you from accessing an entire layer of content. You need Gunnery 5 to access large guns. There are some other skills that gate equipment or content.
And it shouldnāt be that hard just to simply start to play a certain way.
You still donāt understand that if you skip the journey of slow development, you skip the game itself.
The game is NOT about LARGE GUNS.
Small guns donāt gate you from content. You can get into fight with small, medium and large guns as well.
Also try to enjoy the content you and your friends create on each level of development. That IS the GAME about. Making last level of skills take longer time is to give room for development after weeks, months and years. So you does not get bored flying the same ship with the same ālarge gunsā. So you can always step forward. If you want to cheat steps, you cheat the fun from yourself! Take your time and have fun.
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Iād love to see the new player who goes for research without even knowing what to fit to his ship.
Also, it takes under 6 days on a average remap to skill science to 5ā¦
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To put it simplyā¦
Game balance. For example, mining barges, if it were the case that it took just a few days to skill into a barge, then it would throw the game out of balance. If every new player could end up in a mining barge with strip miners in a matter of days, what would happen to mineral prices? If people could get into battleships in a matter of days, what would happen to the ISK supply? LP items?
The other thing to keep in mind is that EVE players are very, very good at finding things to take advantage of. If you do something to benefit new players, trust me the older/richer players are going to take advantage of it to a far greater extent than any new player because they have the in game resources and the knowledge to do so.
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And often do well. An interceptor that finds a lone battleship in NS will be able to hold that ship in many cases till the big guns do arrive. In fact, interceptors are often used as scouts for this reason as well as being immune to bubbles.
Last thing I want to fly is a titan, super carrier, or the like. I actually prefer to be in sub-capital class ships.
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The only issue i see with having skills increase by doing activities that involve them is it will allow people to farm skill points for extractors even more so then they do now. For example if you gained skill points in mining skills while mining then every time you hit lvl 5 you could simply extract the skill points and sell them off and regrind the skill to 5 again. This would be probably be too much of an isk farm.
That is why i suggested combining core skills that everyone trains up eventually anyway thus reducing their time over all.
Also with regards to people saying you donāt need level 5 skills for things. Again that is true in most cases but given the concerns of many of the new players Iāve helped over the years and I have worked with at least several hundred, when people see the time scale from a level 4-5 skill and see that it is a week or more for a marginal boon then it does turn them off to wanting to stick around because they begin to wonder how long some of the later skills will take again discouraging them from even getting that far.
Combining core ship skills and making it possible to get to lvl 5 without it costing an arm and a leg takes this concern away or at the very least abates it.
Ok thatās about a week, not very longā¦
Large guns are high level combat, you act like people skill up to large guns and never use anything smaller which is totally not the case.
We have established here that it is not that hard. If you consider the game to be fun only when you can fly the biggest ships and largest guns then you can buy as much SP as you want up front. If you donāt want to buy it up front you can buy it on a payment plan called subscription.
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EVE is game for the long term. What I see people asking for here is instant gratification.
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