Defensive tactics for Industrials?

So a problem I think most industrials seem to have is there are fits for Gate to Gate/station. And fits for station to station/pocos.

But theres no crossover.

The problem is one of alignments, tank, and stabs, vs. Mwd-cloak.

So what to do when operating in a system with no station access to swap out fits or ships for these two purposes?

I was thinking of squirreling away a mobile depot to drop the fittings change into.

When you jump off gate you use mwd-cloak

When you go to your rounds in system you pick up a poco-to-poco fit from your mobile depot and conduct the rounds in the best fit possible.

You can then mobile depot to fit back to travel fit and gate to gate.

I dont know how viable this is…I probably wont play it (not pertinent to me now)

But would like to theorycraft it for later.


Use a friend. Much simpler.

How will that help you have the best fit in a hostile system for the purpose you’re using the industrial?


By scouting to make sure that it isn’t a hostile system. The smart play is to never put your non-combat ship in a position where anyone is able to attack it, and at that point it doesn’t matter what you fit it with.

That’s not an option here…all systems should be workable…regardless of hostility.

I disagree, I do business regardless of the threat. A good fit has saved me numerous times.

A good hostile will likely scan down you and your mobile depot before you can finish

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This is possibly true. Since I haven’t “worked” this idea, I have no idea how long a refit would take.

I can swing by a poco and import/export simultaneously in the time it takes me to align and warp off…dunno if can with a mobile depot.

They take 60 seconds to deploy when you drop one.

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Then blockade runner.

I think the mobile depot is a good idea. What could help make it more secure is if you get a savespot that is off d-scan. I’m not sure how easy it is to create them this days. The last trick I heard of was entering trig space right before downtime, but I’m not sure if they fixed this.

What about using two chars in the same system
and only logging in the one you need at the moment?

Alphas can fly haulers, so being subbed wouldn’t be a hindrance.

I think the idea is that he wants to collect resources from POCOs in systems where there are no station, so he has to 1) travel to the system 2) collect from the POCOs. The different fits are to maximise escape chances on the gate/wormhole or while on a POCO all while in a cheap industrial. Hope I understood that correctly.

I applaud this effort of his, because he’s actually making it harder for himself.
I think that’s respectable.

OP … I don’t know about the fits you’re talking about, but when a mobile depot isn’t an option … maybe a cap booster is. With a cap booster I used to overfit ships with offline modules and just on/offlined whatever I needed/didn’t need, using the cap booster to get above 95% cap to make sure I can online everything in an instant.

That’s how I achieved an actually useable combat probing, tracking disrupting, pointing, high speed interceptor with a cloak on top … before there were CPU rigs. :slight_smile:

Maybe that would be possible for you too?

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So do I. I don’t think he is trying to make it harder for himself. He just tries to optimize survivability and by using an inexpensive t1 industrial it’s not a big loss if it explodes anyway. It’s what I would do.

This is just brilliant, I love those tricks

I assume you are talking about operation outside high security space…

The truth is that there is absolutely no need to do optimization you are talking about!

If someone hunts you actively then there is no fit for T1 industrial which will work. Forget about stabs, align time and tank. The reality is: your ship is huge, bulky, slow cargo container with engines attached - no matter what you fit to it.

The only ship to do PI is Epithal. Everything else sucks. Epithal is dedicated to this role.

“Good enough” Epithal fit should:

  • have cloak and MWD that you can perform MWD-Cloak, hide to do PI clickfest, or hide in safe spot and wait out hostilles,
  • allow you to do your job as quickly as possible,
  • give you “some chance” to escape from bubbles (but with good scouting you never should find yourself inside such bubble),
  • give you “some chance” to escape from opportunistic or low skilled attacker.

Skilled hunters can use D-Scan effectively to spot you without combat probes within a seconds they enter the system or they can use combat probes to spot you in couple of seconds before you notice them on D-Scan. They can be cloaked or d-scan immune, they will be faster to arrive at your next destination and wait there.

So I would not bother changing the fits while moving inside single solar system. You just need to follow safety protocol, “good enough” fit and keep observation scout in the system if you can dualbox.

Safety protocol before even going into the system with Eipthal:

  1. Use in-game map: “Pilots in space” this gives you some hint about activity in the system.

  2. Send scout. Cloaked and with combat probes if possible.
    If you can dualbox then leave him there and observe gates, POCOs etc. Stay there for some time to see who is hanging around and who is just travelling through.
    If you have ship capable to launch combat probes make use of them. You can cover then much larger area of system with observation (several thousands kilometers of grid + 14.3 AU radius from D-Scan + 64 AU from probes).

T1 exploration frigate is enough - cheap, fast, small, can fit combat probes. Astero with sub 2-s align fit works really good for moving around cloaked (but no combat probes then). Best option is cov-ops frigate - fast, small, it can warp cloaked and can use combat probes.
If you are operating in nullsec/wormhole consider nullified ship to escape bubbles - interceptor or T3c.

  1. Make many bookmarks - observation perches near gates and POCOs. Several (not one!) unaligned safe spots.

Safety protocol when operating inside the system:

  1. Never operate with cargo when actively hunted.

Epithal is dirt cheap in comparison to your cargo and you should treat ship as disposable and already lost. Don’t bother about loss of the ship. Stack multiple spares nearby and use them as disposable tools. Bother about cargo. In case of danger you can dump cargo to nearest POCO as storage or even jettison it in safe spot (these containers are not scannable) and go back later to collect it (you have around 1 hour before it despawns).

Tip: you can extend jettison container lifetime indefinitely by going there with just your scout, jettisoning something small (like 1 unit of planetary material) and moving cargo between containers in space. Name the container with time of creation to know when it will despawn. Rinse and repeat.

Wait out hostiles or even postpone to next day if your cargo is safe in POCO. Go back with scout and continue only when they are no longer there. If they kill your disposable but empty ship no big loss.

  1. Never sit uncloaked and still in space.
  • When starting from gate always use MWD-Cloak trick. Even if there is no one around - they can be cloaked or D-Scan immune. Even if local is empty - some one might jump in just after you when you are aligning…

  • When departing from station use insta-undock bookmark. When arriving to station use insta-dock bookmark.

  • Do not operate planetary export transfers to POCO while sitting next to it. Go to safe spot, cloak and work there. Arrive to POCO only for couple of seconds to drop or collect cargo and warp off.

  • When arrive to POCO then first action should be to immediately start aligning towards your next destination. Do not do planetary imports. Only drag and drop cargo between ship and POCO and immediately warp off.

  • Go to safe spot. Cloak. Do whatever you need with your colonies: planetary imports, PI clickfest etc.

Safe storing PI inside station-less system:

  1. POCO - this is best option. The tax is paid only when you export/import to planet. You can use one or more POCOs to store ready products until you show up with proper ship to collect them.

  2. Small control tower - if there are no stations then make your own! Small control tower is small (!), anchors and unanchors quickly and uses fuel only when on-line. If you keep stront box full then it takes 24 hours to be destroyed. And absolutely no one likes shooting empty dead sticks because they drop nothing. You can anchor “enormous freight container” inside force field and it will not despawn. When done destroy the container to not draw attention.

  3. Permanently logged-off ship - alpha account with Epithal who never leaves the system. It scales well if you need more storage space. Login in safe spot. Collect the cargo. Safe log off.
    If you do it inside active force field - even better.

Safe storing Epithal inside station-less system:

  1. If you travel with Epithal to the system someone might follow you or setup the trap. You can use Alpha account to store Epithal inside the system for your Omega account.
  • Open client for Alpha account on character selection screen.
  • Arrive with your Omega account in capsule to safe spot bookmark. Safe logoff with Omega.
  • Login with Alpha. Eject from ship and safe logoff.
  • Login with Omega and jump into the ship.

It is risky because your ship will sit still in space while you are changing accounts but still better than travelling with Epithal through multiple gates. In case someone spots you - it will be empty ship.

Once you are done find next safe spot in case someone scanned and bookmarked it.

Safety protocol while exporting products from the system to safe station:

  1. Forward scout and intel are mandatory! You will be transporting expensive cargo, results of your production worth days of effort.

  2. PI is bulky so most likely DST is your best bet. It can do MWD-Cloak. It has tank strong enough to survive gate crash. But still - this is just improved version of bulky, slow, and huge cargo container with engines so don’t expect too much. If you are caught - it is most likely dead unless you are luckly. If they actively hunt for you - you are dead for sure. This time with expensive cargo. So don’t allow to be caught.

  3. If you transport small amount of cargo then blockade runner maybe. They can warp cloaked and can be fit for fast align but have very little cargo space.

Once your products are in safe station but still outside highsec then you can continue with DST or use jump freighter to transport them to highsec.

[Epithal, Good Enough]

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II

Improved Cloaking Device II
[Empty High slot]

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

[Occator, Cheap and agile]

Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Inertial Stabilizers II
Inertial Stabilizers II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Deluge Enduring Burst Jammer

Improved Cloaking Device II
Core Probe Launcher I

Medium Transverse Bulkhead II
Medium Transverse Bulkhead II

Sisters Core Scanner Probe x16


Incorrect. Scouting ahead doesn’t ensure the system is not hostile. It only says you didn’t spot anything too troublesome while in your scout. That situation changes every second.

Disagree. There is no reason to expect all systems to be workable. It’s up to you to check the system and evaluate it’s viability.

I’d probably agree with Karak that a safe spot well off D-Scan would be your only choice for mobile depot re-fitting. Otherwise the timer on the depot leaves you more vulnerable than not using it.

My own procedure would be:

  • Check maps info for system activity levels
  • Scout ahead
  • Fit mostly for the POCO run since that is what most of your time will be spent doing

In advance:

  • Choose a system with multiple exits not too close together
  • Create a safe spot

Then process would be Scout, Warp In, POCO run, Safe Spot, check system exits, jump out safe exit.

You won’t be optimally fit for each stage but 90% of the time you’ll be fine, and if 10% losses occur, well that’s the biz.

OP…why would you need to learn about doing PI in less safe situations when you are already the best PIer?

High security space is a safer than null security space.

I meant to stage it and keep in system assuming no one would bother with it

I always have done pi in less safe situations lol. You assume too much!