Denying lvl 4 (& lvl 5) missions to alpha's (March patch notes) is a very bad idea

[Lord_Rolfski]

@Maekchu

I think it is safe to say, that the original intent of Alpha clones was never for them to have the ability to efficiently farm ISK.

So honestly, the current changes only support the original intent. One can argue, that CCP have taken way too long to actually balance the Alpha clone and thus Alpha’s have grown accustomed to the “luxurious” life of lvl4 income.

Your’re right about the intent but you’re drawing the wrong conclusions from it. CCP has always been extremely reluctant to make alphas ISK makers for the following reasons:

• possible exploits/messing up Eve’s fragile player-driven economy
• they don’t want to upset vets and paying players
• their old subscription model worked long enough for them so they’re naturally biased to changing it as little as possible

Alphas are here to stay though and even CCP realizes that their current half-assed f2p model won’t sustain in the long run. If anything, expect alphas to get fewer restrictions, not more. Like it or not.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Lord_Rolfski

expect alphas to get fewer restrictions, not more.

CCP have already said they are looking at blocking navy and pirate ships from alphas also.
You clearly are wildly out of touch with things.

[Lord_Rolfski]

@Maekchu

You just forget, that eve is not implemented as a F2P game. The alpha is basically a glorified trial.

If CCP actually implemented proper F2P systems, then I could agree with you.

Basically, your misconception is that you think eve is a F2P game.

Eve is indeed not proper f2p atm. But CCP advertises it as such and even they understand that the game has to move towards this model eventually. Even though they want to postpone this as long as possible.

[Maekchu]

Not sure why you think I care much for alphas…

I only gave you quotes from the original devblog, where they explicitly state that they don’t intend alphas to cause bigger influence on the eve ecosystem.

For some reason, the correct way to interpret that is that alphas should get less restrictions? Yes, clearly I’m the one drawing wrong conclusions.

I’ve provided the basis for my opinion with an official devblog. To give your argument some legitimacy, maybe post anything from CCP that supports your opinion on the alpha? As it is now, it’s only an opinion that you try to argue as some sort of fact.

[Lord_Rolfski]

@Brisc_Rubal

. Player election just doesn’t work in this game. When an alliance prescribes you who to vote for and in what order, resulting in a complete joke of a block representation, then you just know this whole current CSM system is just rotten at its core.

How is that any different from how elections work in real life?

In real life elections you vote for general agendas and ideas, in Eve your background as a player is way more important.

[Lord_Rolfski]

@Nevyn_Auscent

If plexxing makes them more isk, they already would.
Therefore even if they plex to do so they lose isk.
Explain how botters getting less isk for more work makes for a larger problem.

It’s simple, botters make less ISK than they used to be. So they deploy more bots. Even bots are work, which is why the only scale up when necessary.

[Lord_Rolfski]

@Maekchu

Not sure why you think I care much for alphas…

I only gave you quotes from the original devblog, where they explicitly state that they don’t intend alphas to cause bigger influence on the eve ecosystem.

For some reason, the correct way to interpret that is that alphas should get less restrictions? Yes, clearly I’m the one drawing wrong conclusions.

I’ve provided the basis for my opinion with an official devblog. To give your argument some legitimacy, maybe post anything from CCP that supports your opinion on the alpha? As it is now, it’s only an opinion that you try to argue as some sort of fact.

I didn’t say you care for alphas, I do obviously and for good reasons. I don’t expect you to agree to them though but I did give you my reasons

[Rich_Darine]

You get what you pay for @Lord_Rolfski

[Maekchu]

As long as we agree, that it’s only your opinion. However the way you write, you imply CCP somehow agrees with your view.

Take the below sentences for example.

@Lord_Rolfski

CCP advertises it as such and even they understand that the game has to move towards this model eventually. Even though they want to postpone this as long as possible.

@Lord_Rolfski

CCP realizes that their current half-assed f2p model won’t sustain in the long run. If anything, expect alphas to get fewer restrictions, not more.

Provide a reference that supports that this is actually CCP’s stance or make it more obvious that it is only your own opinion on the issue.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Lord_Rolfski

In real life elections you vote for general agendas and ideas, in Eve your background as a player is way more important.

You’re still voting for people, or for political parties. Lots of reasons why folks vote, and it’s often because somebody told them to vote that way. That’s why we chase things like endorsements and ballot access through political parties.

It’s basically the same thing in EVE. And plenty of folks run for CSM on platforms. I did.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

If they could deploy more bots they already would have. So no they won’t deploy more bots.

[Aomame_Sato]

That’s amusing @Nevyn_Auscent. I’ve seen arguments on here about how you can’t direct social changes in gameplay based on code, because people will min-max the new system, whatever it is.

Why do you think botting, alone, will be immune from this phenomenon? There is no reason to assume so, is there? We, as humans, generally can be counted on to do what is in our own best interests. Even religious people. We’re kind not because we initially care about you, though that can develop later, but because we want to escape samsara, or we want to get to heaven, etc, etc.

If you can, in one breath tell me, no, they’ll work around this, but not that…

Well. IMO, you don’t understand your own mind, let alone the minds of others, or general human nature.

Botting for isk is senseless to me. I hardly need it, now, but when I did, I just bought plex, for a half hour’s work of real money.

Botting? I suppose if I wanted to, I could set that up, if I learned all that new sfuff. I learned a little LUA for WoW. A little. I like sequential, not objective code. Yeah, my age is showing. Fine. I’ve tried to learn a little bit about oop, but truth be told, this is not 1990, and those days are past, for me.

My main focus is not technology, no, but I use it. How can I not, in this world? I sorta understand what’s going on, but the way things have been going on, for the past few decades, you guys, today, are both geniuses and morons, from our perspective, those of my era. You stand on our shoulders, and we are proud of what you’ve done, though most of us, being human, and aging, just said, well, that’s enough - let them deal with it. It’s time for me to play with my cats, have a garden, live life. Or at least that’s what I did.

I can follow all of the arguments, but I can’t argue against many of them, when it comes to the code-bases most of you use, with great skill, today, that give me the greatest of difficulty.

I know I’m combining a lot of recent threads into one comment here, but so be it. CCP will do what it will do. Change is the one constant, though. Those of you seeking an eve as it was, are going to be disappointed. Those of you seeking a complete reversal, are also going to be disappointed. Change is never ending, inevitable, always happening, but it’s slow.

All is samsara. Duhkha is not in any shortage in your new world, I’ll just say that.

[Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras]

wow, even i agree with solstice and that is rare.

There’s huge differences in Alpha and Omega. Alpha is not meant to be given full access that I pay for. It’s not fair for those who have paid for years that Alphas are given free access to. NO. @Nevyn_Auscent I hope they remove the pirate factions from alphas.

https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/213020969-Alpha-and-Omega-Clone

with a few changes to that, Alphas will look better minus battleships and some hauling ships.

[Nicolai_Serkanner]

@Lord_Rolfski

Denying them Lvl 4 missions will only annoy the heck out of alphas, it will do nothing to bring them to Omega.

Lvl 4s also don’t bring them to omega. Get rid of Alpha altogether is a better solution. ■■■■■■■ freeloaders.

[Makshima_Shogo]

@Brisc_Rubal

How is that any different from how elections work in real life?

There is a bit of a difference, In real life each big group vote’s for their own candidate. If eve’s environment was translated into real life it would be similar to the whole world voting for a few guys to manage planet Earth and you can be sure that most of those people would be Indian/Chinese purely because of population size.

Not criticizing you guy’s as I know most of you guys are putting in a lot of effort, but we do see the trend of Null Sec receiving the bulk of change’s but It makes sense since that’s where CSM experience mostly lies and Null is the biggest problem child atm.

Nice of you guys to make it easier for the new guys with High Sec change’s to increase new player retention which has a big effect on player population over the next few years, but as FactionWarfare pilots (Low Secor’s) we don’t really believe we will see any changes effect us for the next 5 years or so and it’s kinda sad, becuase FW is kinda dead one side is always extremely strong while the other lies in ruin, if balance was key then it would be a much more exciting place to be.

[Aceyfacey]

Agreed, id have thought null sec anomalies were more problematic for bots than missions…not like they give much isk in comparison anyway.

Feels to me like a quick way to shut up whiny people on here and reddit.

Sad because its more or less the main pve aspect in high sec. Not too sad because abyssals are still there

Also about the alpha thing I personally spent money for the first time after they released the expanded alpha status since it felt like my moneys worth when I kept the skills forever.

[Aves_Asio]

Remove battleships instead, let them run l4 in drakes, we all know its doable

Whos bright idea was it anyway to give them a rattlesnake with geckos, id love to meet that dumbell

[Aomame_Sato]

I don’t even really have to add to this…

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Lord_Rolfski

Here’s how proper f2p works. The majority will never support the game but that’s fine because they will still provide content, The revenue comes from the 20^% that actually supports it. That doesn’t make the other 80% less important though: 20% is supporting the game because the other 80% is giving them content.

Instead of made up numbers, I’d love to see some real numbers about the amount of people paying for the game and the amount of people playing as Alpha. Because I seriously doubt that I’m part of a tiny group of 20% people that pay.

Unless you would count everyone who ever logged into the game, tried it and decided EVE was not for them as among those 80% active ‘players’, because they left the game before paying.

Keep in mind it’s people I’m talking about here, not alt characters or accounts. Because I too have an Alpha character that I use to fly around in high sec.

[Aomame_Sato]

It’s not hard to notice. A T3? Omega. T2 weapons? Omega. Etc, etc. The paywall is pretty large. Unless you were wiped by a horde of Tristans with T1 hobs, odds are, paying customer.

I hear about all these bots. I even see some, fleets of them, oh, wait, that’s a multiboxer, all paid in his skiffs and orca as he sucks up an ice field like a hoover…

Hmm… There are bots, and some are alphas. It’s the new version of ‘because of falcon?’