Dev blog: Clone States - The Next Steps

That may indeed be part of the idea.
But what I don’t understand is why then give Alphas Ice Mining and Gas Harvesting if they can’t fly an Expedition Frigate? I never thought they would give Alphas Mining Barges (even though I would love to be able to fly my procurer again), but the based on those skills, Expedition Frigates were the only idea I had for those skills to be worth training. And yet, they are not on the list.

Edit: Forgot Ventures can use Gas Harvesters…

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Perhaps it was a mistake in the list and won’t be in the final list.

If it is… it’s something you can train and not use while alpha but have ready if you ever become Omega. It seems a pretty small thing.

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@Sgt_Ocker, On SISI, I did use omega status to extract current alpha skills recently. (I was testing the performance of Tactical Shield Manipulation level 0 )

Also, people like Naxos Kali would willing extract skills like Mining Upgrades IV and Industry V so that he could use those SPs elsewhere in the upcoming alpha-list

@Naxos_Kali, looks like I misread your post. The cheapest way (in the end) would be to used injectors (daily or otherwise) to train the alpha skills you want, up to 5.5M extraction limit, then extract 500K worth of worthless-to-you-skills and sell those.

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What was your total SP when you extracted the skills?? What faction is the character?

Ok, extracting mining upgrades 4 and Industry 5 will give you 437,000 SP (not enough for an extractor) - And seriously, Naxos Kails post clearly shows he has little understanding of how skills interact. Electronic upgrades is quite a handy skill to have, it enables the use of many modules. Destroyers 4, well as lvl 3 is a prerequisite to train cruisers then battle-cruisers, he could in theory extract the 74,171K SP and leave it at lvl 3.

The extraction limit is 5.5 mil SP - Meaning you need to have “more than” 5.5 mil SP to extract any SP. So to extract 500,000 SP you would need to have 6 mil SP. You could of course as you suggested, use an injector daily or otherwise to train above the 5.5 mil cap and extract the skills you brought but you would have no gain in SP and little gain in isk.

Personally, I don’t see CCP allowing skills that have been trained for free to be turned into isk without a sub - Can you?
So, if you want to pay for a months sub to extract enough SP to "just’ fill one extractor (which when sold is worth less than a third of a months sub) I say, go for it… By all means, waste your isk (or real money) on principal…

In general I like upcoming changes they will allow me to stay in game after my year subs expire,I decided I will not give this game any more money with this alpha+ it is possible to do lotsa/all low and med content as well as PvP whack a mole thus not being bored to death.

Anyone expecting more should plan to go omega.

Will Alpha’s have access to T2 Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers as well then?

They will have T2 Heavy Missiles… so probably? Its why I’m looking at having at least one BS setup involving them.

I’ll point out you could do the same before this change. Omega can be purchased using plex that can be bought using isk. The only thing preventing anyone from playing this game in full for nothing today is how much grind they’re willing to accept.

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Is the 5M limit for free SP based on skill (like alpha is now) or based on skill points?

If it will be based on skill points, then it is possible for alpha player (which has not train full 5M SP) to focus the training on certain skills to get higher in certain area sacrificing other skills, right? For example, it maybe possible for a fresh alpha to concentrate free training to fly battleships with sacrificing other skills (mining, industry, trading, exploration, T2 weapons, etc.).

Thanks!

You can acquire up to 5M(5.5M?) SP (in listed skills, presumably) through regular training in Alpha state.
If you already have more than that, your training options are limited to skill injection or Omega upgrade.

However, it is not that clear whether the 5M SP alpha can free-train is specified skills (like the way alpha limited in skill now), or alpha can freely choose to free-train any skill from the 20M alpha can have, up to 5M SP. If the later, means alpha can free-train to quite high level in narrow path, maybe up to battleships if any other skills are ignored.

It’s the latter. The list is being expanded and a fresh alpha can choose to train anything on the list. That means a 5M ISK alpha will have no problem getting into a battle cruiser or battleship before they hit the training cap.

I was going to mention this. I really think that the problem is also how insanely profiable mining is becoming. If you give Alphas the ability to mine moon goo the way an omega can you can pretty much plex by being a casual once-a-week or twice-a-week miner with moon goo. I think the ISK reward is a little high on the scale for an alpha, which makes it a dangerous opportunity for bots, multi-boxing, etc.

That said, Mining IS an ISK sink not an ISK faucet, and helps increase destruction. I’d be curious to see CCP look at it and get back to us, but I’m not overly eager for it to happen.

I still don’t understand why you can’t just keep the skills you’ve already paid for, and buy plex when there are new parts of the game you want to skill into.

What we have here, right, is two dining rooms. The first is for the Omegas. They are at an “all you can eat” buffet. That means you can eat as much as your physiology will digest over time (limited). But pay way more than the quality of the food warrants. The second dining room is for the alphas. They are getting prison gruel and yelled at by the power, and wearing stripped suits.

Why can’t we just buy the food and eat it as we wish? Maybe, you know, relax with a cup of quafe. Relax.

Folks will buy the skill books if the depth of game play they open up seems worth it. They might wait a while between sets of purchases. So, for example, someone might buy a bunch of skills to train into T3. Then once, skilled up, they might fly their T3s around for a couple of months, and not buy plex. But then they want to try BLOPS, so they decide to buy those skills, and do that.

If the game had been developed in this fashion from the start, Dust probably would have been viable. If you could take your Eve character down into Dust and skill up entirely different sets of ground based skills on the same character, the Devs who are now coming up with new skill trees to interest saturated long term Eve players, who have nothing left to train, could have been working on that directly related set of skills.

If you kept what you paid for, skill books would function as DLC packs. The devs would be therefore working on each new facet of the game as a new DLC release (likely to generate a lot of money if popular, if not…).

My suspicion is that a good deal of ill will would be therefore avoided. The current model of leasehold, where you lose everything if you don’t pay on time, generates an expectation of constant performance improvement across the entire experience. We pay you every month, so you (the devs) work for us. That is the thinking with the current business model.

If we were just buying DLCs (skills books), we could be less enthusiastic about some, and more about others. They would just be DLCs we bought. Nobody would work for anybody.

Anyway, bring the hate.

-I plex an account for a couple of months.
-I train PI on all three toons.
-I go back to alpha an never play again.
-My three toons generate over a billion isk worth of PI each month (using today’s prices) with me only logging in twice a week to update extractor heads and hauling junk a couple of times per month.
-I do this with 50 accounts… using plex from the free PI income I get every month for those I’ve already completed to pay for the set up on the next one.
-So does everyone else.
-PI prices crash.

The above is one of many answers as to why you can’t use “omega” skills while not currently subbed as omega.

Another… the fact that I can have a cloaked cyno capable alpha alt in every system in Eve… so I can light a cyno for my alliance anywhere at any time without it costing anything. I wouldn’t be able to cyno my own ships… but my corp mates will have the same thing and just light one for me afterwards.

Infinite blueprint researching and invention slots.
Infinite manufacturing slots.
A capable mining alt to earn income that you don’t have to pay anything for using.

The above three would be extremely disruptive to markets.

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So, this is why we can’t have nice things? Because of the sacred need to protect the sanctity of the PI price point?

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

muh…muh… sandbox!

One of the cardinal rule for alphas is to not allow players to create hundreds of alpha accounts to get an advantage doing things that require little to no active play time. The big limitation to alpha accounts is you can only log into one account at a time if one is alpha.

PI is mostly off line. Researching BPO’s is mostly off line. Research agents is mostly off line. The reason these are banned for alphas is to prevent a single user from using multiple free accounts to their advantage as much as possible.

If you “want those nice things”… sub the account.

The sandbox is open for all… but if you want to use nice tools you have to pay for them. Otherwise you’re stuck with the free plastic tools that break all the time.

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@CCP_Falcon
Can you get someone to fix up the dev blog?

  • Spaceship Command currently displays Skill Level 4, Skill Rank 1, Skill Points 8,000. Should be Level 4, Rank 1, Points 45,255.
  • Torpedoes currently displays Skill Level 4, Skill Rank 5, Skill Points 226,274. Should be Level 4, Rank 4, Points 181,020.
  • Reactions aren’t listed. Should be Level 1, Rank 1, Points 250.
  • Any instance of 4,243 should display 4,242.
  • Any instance of 5,657 should display 5,656.
  • Any instance of 7,071 should display 7,070.
  • Any instance of 181,019 should display 181,020.
  • Any instance of 226,274 should display 226,275.
  • Any instance of 271,529 should display 271,530.
  • Any instance of 362,039 should display 362,040.
  • Total SP should be 20,436,254.

IEEE 754 is a ■■■■■…

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If everyone playing FW will stop suscribe and play on alpha, those who will be omega will have serious advantage in 1vs1 fights.

Alphas are now viable in pvp, but they have to choose their target carefully or outnumber.

Alpha character is extremely lacking in Navigation skill tree - that makes them never be able to beat omega speedtanks.
Next, Armor skills: omega will have much better resists and much higher speed due to the armor layering.
Shields - almost all shield skills are capped at 4, resists again at 2. Thats huge difference if you have this all at 5.

And the ship skills are capped at 4 as well.

Next, omega character will be less vulnerable to ecm than alpha.

The rest skills are probably not going to make that big difference in frigate/cruiser fights, but absence of cloaking is probably the most limiting thing on alpha clone. That makes living in WH, travel in ns and ganking explorers/miners next to impossible.

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