Dev blog: New Alpha Training Option

[Nana_Skalski]

@Teckos_Pech

Only if they want too. So there is no taking. More like voluntary transactions.

CCP takes cash from them in effect.

@Teckos_Pech

Then don’t. And right now they are priced at around $9.99 for 11 of them.

CCP knows how people like SP and if they are permanent its a nice stuff to have. They know what they are doing. It is alluring stuff this permanent SP, to take in effect money from people. You dont have to use smooth words, nobody cares at this point. Its normalcy of our times. Game companies, and CCP is one, want your money.

[Ganellon_Devians]

Nope, i didnt miss it and this is exactly what i meant!
Injectors will give also the option to train the non-free skills (like you say)

[Cypherous]

@Ganellon_Devians

@zluq_zabaa

Alas, this only works for the first 5M SP and only for Alpha Skills and it isn’t any real competition to regular Skill Injectors, due to its daily limit.

I think you didnt read right, the new Alpha Injector gives you access to the rest 15m SPs (Omega skills) for one day. Its not working only for the free 5m SP but for all skills.
The only difference is that an Alpha will not have to sub for 30 days to get access to those skills, he will be able to train them whenever he wants to and for as long he wants (1 or more days).

it doesn’t give any access to omega skills, you might want to re-read it yourself before telling others they didn’t read it right

[Cypherous]

@Ganellon_Devians

I’m reading it again and still cant understand what they mean, they say a small addition for a new ship-class without the need for a 30-days training, tell me, which alpha ship-class need so many days training? alphas can get only a Cruiser-Class ship, the free training time for a Cruiser is only a couple days! lol

I think with “30-Days” they mean 30-days Omega training.

In december the alpha skill pool is being increased to include up to battleships of all 4 races, they will have around 20mil of total SP available to them but can only train up to 5mil normally as an alpha, for the rest they need omega or injectors

[Ganellon_Devians]

Are you her lawyer?

[Teckos_Pech]

@Nana_Skalski

CCP takes cash from them in effect.

No, they give CCP cash. When you go to the grocery store do they “take” your cash or do you give it to them. You give it to them.

@Nana_Skalski

CCP knows how people like SP and if they are permanent its a nice stuff to have. They know what they are doing. It is alluring stuff this permanent SP, to take in effect money from people. You dont have to use smooth words, nobody cares at this point. Its normalcy of our times. Game companies, and CCP is one, want your money.

Yes, a company selling a product wants money for it…this is true of your grocery store, the restaurant you like to go to, and the stores you buy your shoes at. And it is largely all voluntary. Don’t want it…don’t buy it, and nobody is taking your money except when you give it to them of your own volition.

[zluq_zabaa]

@Persephanie_Mae

I would love to add this to the concerns list. CCP threw this thought of of the door pretty fast.

Skill Trading in New Eden | EVE Online

“It’s very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate.”

Fair point, but with the daily limit per character to 50K SP, you’ll only get 1.5M SP a month for 600 PLEX (and possibly daily logins). Farming SP in Omega State costs only 500 PLEX and nets you something around 1.9M SP a month.

@Nana_Skalski

CCP knows how people like SP and if they are permanent its a nice stuff to have. They know what they are doing. It is alluring stuff this permanent SP, to take in effect money from people. You dont have to use smooth words, nobody cares at this point. Its normalcy of our times. Game companies, and CCP is one, want your money.

I mean how could it be any different? If they don’t take any money, they can’t pay staff or servers. It becomes an issue when they entice you to pay in order to get a massive advantage over other players. I don’t see where this is the case in EVE. Yeah sure, someone could spend $10K on the PLEX store to get something close to a Trillion ISK. But there are many guys who have far more than that and having lots of ISK doesn’t mean you’re gonna succeed at anything in the game. People will shoot your bling, scam you, play their games with you and never will CCP or anyone come lurking around the corner, congratulating you to win EVE for any archievements in game.

The new Injector will help getting Alphas quicker into activities without the need for them to subscribe just yet. Basically quicker way to find out if they like the game and not discourage them with unnecessary waiting time. Sure, CCP could also just give Alphas the entire Alpha Skill set for free to let them try it out, but this would produce an outcry amongst the Omega community (“blabla they got for free what I had to pay for blabla”) and it would give the false impression about Skill progression. The new Injectors do indeed tell the Alphas “if you pay (real money or ISK) you’ll train at a faster level”, which is the same like it is now, only that they offer smaller try-out payments. If that gets Alphas quicker into activities and helps them decide to join and stay in EVE, I think that is a very good move by CCP.

Some of CCPs decision regarding sales might have been of poor taste, but to call them pay2win is utterly unfair. If you want them to deliver you completely free game, you’ll need to give your work for free to other people as well. If everyone does it, everything will be free. Until then, having to pay for EVE is necessity, not greed of its developing company.

[Linus_Gorp]

@Persephanie_Mae

“It’s very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate.”

That one went down the toilet after they introduced SP injectors as reward for new players (recruit a friend reward for the new guy and the one the tutorial hands out).

Everyone that didn’t see this coming is totally delusional and it’s not going to get any better.

[Forseti_Valkyrie]

Just mail us a CD every 30 days with 1,000 free hours and put pop-up ads in the corner with one that shows every 5 min about how we can avoid the annoying ads by paying $15/mo.

[Sabriz_Adoudel]

@Abyss_Azizora

So when do you think they will add in the “gold ammo” given CCPs slow and cautious approach to going Pay2win… I mean free2play… I mean alpha clones… Or whatever madeup term they use to disguise the gradual increase of cash for power.

Smart though, they learned from moniclegate/greed-is-good-gate, that you don’t just dump PAY2WIN into a game all at once, you do it gradually over time so people don’t know the water is boiling till it’s too late. I’d like to think Eve has a mature enough playerbase to see the problem, but humans are easily tricked.

In my mind they haven’t crossed the sanctioned paid cheating line yet. The skill injectors come close but aren’t over the line.

These changes do not change anything. Before this change, the main method of sanctioned paid cheating in EVE was selling PLEX for ISK. After this, it will be the same.

[Vortexo_VonBrenner]

um…I mean…no worries, Malcanis’ law could never apply…

[Cypherous]

@Ganellon_Devians

Are you her lawyer?

Nope but i don’t need to be, i read the blog and understood it

[Ganellon_Devians]

@Cypherous

In december the alpha skill pool is being increased to include up to battleships of all 4 races, they will have around 20mil of total SP available to them but can only train up to 5mil normally as an alpha, for the rest they need omega or injectors

Exactly, alphas will need a 30-days sub at least to gain access to new skills.

[Cypherous]

@Ganellon_Devians

@Cypherous

In december the alpha skill pool is being increased to include up to battleships of all 4 races, they will have around 20mil of total SP available to them but can only train up to 5mil normally as an alpha, for the rest they need omega or injectors

Exactly, alphas will need a 30-days sub at least to gain access to new skills.

Not quite, alphas can train up to 5mil SP from nay of the available alpha skills without needing to spend anything, in order to train above that 5mil they either need to pay for a subscription or to buy injectors, injectors will still only allow them to apply skillpoints to the skills they are allowed to access, if an alpha activates it they will only be able to apply it to their set of skills not omega ones, this means they can train for new skills without subscribing but it will still be limited to the standard alpha skills unless they buy omega

[Ganellon_Devians]

ok, you could have been a good lawyer, you made everything a lot more complicated now, LOL!
but i think we have to see what else will come/change 'til December, not even CCP knows how exactly everything will work.

[Teckos_Pech]

Seems pretty simple to me.

As an Alpha you can:

• Train the first 5 million SP at no out-of-pocket costs.
• With the up-coming change to Alpha’s the set of skills still active in the Alpha state has been increased to 20 million.
• To get the new skills the Alpha clone account must be Omega and trained, or an injector is used.
• Even if you are Omega and train say, Cloaking, when you revert to Alpha you lose access to cloaking.

[Ganellon_Devians]

@Teckos_Pech

…
Even if you are Omega and train say, Cloaking, when you revert to Alpha you lose access to cloaking.

I dont think you will loose it, this is what will change from December, the skills you have already trained ('til 20m SP) you will be able to use them even if you go back to Alpha-State.

[Nasar_Vyron]

So with this we can officially purchase skillpoints. Even if it’s daily, you are still buying skillpoints to apply to skills at will, inefficiencies normally incurred due to bad remaps be damned.

You’re about to do the one thing you said you wouldn’t; that is to allow people to purchase SP directly. No matter the excuse you want to make for it, you’re purposely sliding down that slope with this.

So what about doing something you said you wanted to do which is remove attributes already? The one thing you all said you wanted to do but haven’t?

[Nasar_Vyron]

@Ganellon_Devians

I dont think you will loose it, this is what will change from December, the skills you have already trained ('til 20m SP) you will be able to use them even if you go back to Alpha-State.

Wrong, only the skills that are designated as “Alpha skill” will be kept, the others will be locked out regardless of 20m limit.

EDIT - I’m really confused how this became two separate posts… w/e lol

[Teckos_Pech]

@Ganellon_Devians

I dont think you will loose it, this is what will change from December, the skills you have already trained ('til 20m SP) you will be able to use them even if you go back to Alpha-State.

What are you basing this on?

And to be clear, you do not lose the SP in cloaking, you just lose access–i.e. you cannot use a cloak. If you re-activate Omega state you can then use cloaks without having to train them again.