I forgot another advantage:
In fights with logi it would change the situation from on/off and add a middle tier: Logi can’t prelog everything and you have the chance to hit the not prelogged ship and destroy it, even if not all jams land.
No! kicks Lorenzo_Maulerant into pit This is SPARTA!
Am I too late for that meme?
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Maybe this is something to work with
but wouldn’t this make the force recon that typically fits 4+ ecm modules solo stronger than a combat recon that may fit 1 or 2 max also the auto targeting system (a utility high that is easier to make space for ) adds + 3 to max targets
Is this effect accumulative (per cycle) on max targets locked, 12-9-6-3 permajam
And when you say successful lock you mean they always hit but remove less of the possible locked targets from the opponent per cycle - So with the all the mid-slots a falcon 1v1 it would be instant permajam.
Why would this look interesting to you - I know it has no RNG but I thought you were also against feeling helpless and not having agency
Looks like a guarantee permajam after X number of cycles to me
Edit: Am I confused as to how this works - I though it may be workable but then it looks like I can calculate an “always jam” and choose not to fight scenario
I’m sorry - I find this an interesting idea - Just trying to wrap my head round this
Why would “not all jams land” - I thought ECM would always work (to a greater or lesser amount- by removing the opponents max lockable targets )
For those interested in doing something productive instead of what this topics turned into, I’ve started a new topic suggestion-for-ecm-fix to get ideas and feed-back on said ideas to fix the whole ECM issue.
Looking forward to positive posts and feedback.
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I appreciate the work you did here, but I think it’s more productive for us to work the system as it works now, rather than try to recreate it from the ground up.
well what I’m doing is looking for ideas, never said anything a complete new system.
as it is the suggested OP solution uses existing systems already in EVE, just changed to an ECM use.
the whole ECM % chance system is a joke, as it meant even a frigate with a %5 chance still could jam a Dreadnought or larger.
the idea I suggest is using what systems that are in place already, removes the % chance and replaces it with a much more basic sensor strength vs ECM strength. this would bring about new ECM specific fitted ships and ECCM specific fitted ships. meaning fleets would have both, just like real-world.
thus solo frigates would have limited success against much larger ships without having to sacrifice a lot to get the required ECM strength to jam ships of those sizes, or to operate in small fleets.
but at the same time ECCM specific fitted ships would be able to hunt down jammer ships, meaning jammer players would have to be careful who/what they target. it would also add a complete new ship fit option to players and fleets. meaning fleets would have to decide what to target first Logi, ECCM, Carrier, etc…
anyhow that the whole propose of getting ideas, to find a solution that works the best, never said my was the only option, just one of many possible one.
Removed some off topic posts.
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Sorry, was writing the additions before I went to sleep.
So, yeah, would always hit, but Logi ships generally have higher sensor strength, so the -2 case would be more common and logi not completly shut down.
For solo you need tackle, which you won’t have on a force recon with 4 ecm modules
Yes, because Cruisers can catch Claws in EVER if the Claws are Nullified… Get out of Pyfa and log into EVE I only say. It sucks if you have Clawfleets plagueing your space and you literally can’t catch them. And don’t come up with Cloaky Campers, CPP just resolves it one at a time.
Its Rise…they will all get drone-centric buffs and higher resists.
Haven’t you figured out how balance works yet?
I know you don’t think what you’re suggesting is a new system since it’s using similar to mechanics to other systems, but in terms of what they’d have to do, it’s probably an entirely new system.
Like I said before, it’s probably in everybody’s best interests to provide the feedback CCP wants now, which is what can be done to buff the ships most impacted by the change.
That’s not to say it’s impossible this gets rolled back - that’s a different question - but they wanted data specifically on what could be done to help out the ships that were most impacted.
Specifically, the most helpful thing that can be done ‘to help out the ships that were most impacted’ is roll back the changes. None of the hulls were in especially common use. none of them were ‘OP’. they were as close to balanced as you could expect a hull bonused to ewar to be.
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As usual, this is not helpful.
whats ‘helpful’ is pointing out places where my quoted statement is incorrect, and balancing the ships that standout as a problem, if any, in the situations where they are abused, if any. that would be called ‘balance’.
what was done has nothing to do with balance. as ive pointed out repeatedly.
instead, the likes of you and literally a few others, have promoted an upending of an entire ewar system and the corresponding hulls, because of FEELINGS. Ive asked, repeatedly, where else are we going to be ‘balancing’ ships and modules and their effects, based on FEELINGS. Since its such a subjective standard, surely even someone with your ‘wit’ recognizes the unstable ground your standing on.
instead, your posts deflect from the core problems associated with this form of '‘agile ‘balance’’", and as a last resort you suggest that if these changes don’t work, they can be rolled back. then you troll me for suggesting they do Just That. I suggest it for predicatable reasons. and because it is on its face absurd.
have you pondered any logical reasoning why you can warp into a room with 40+ npc’s, 5-10 of which jam you, successfully, and thereby make themselves primary as a result? not lore, just logic. where else in combat mechanics is this logic applied? uh huh, nowhere. and that’s not broken? do I have to make a LIST of reasons+ why this is poorly thought out and implemented? again? ill fuqn do it!
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why dont you instead state what would be helpful, be specific.
(as a small gang / solo pilot, i find it very difficult to provide feedback via usage in game, as all the ecm hulls are basically better off flown without ecm at all now, which is pretty much defeats their purpose really?).
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Yes, at the absolute last resort, the changes could be rolled back if, on the whole, CCP thinks they’ve made the game worse for the bulk of players than it was before. They aren’t going to do that, however, unless there’s nothing else they can do because they acknowledge that ECM was a problem before and that’s why they agreed to change it. If there was no problem, nobody would be asking for these changes. But plenty of people did, which is why they were even in CCP’s radar to fix in the first place.
So when I come asking - because Rise specifically asked us to do this - for feedback on how some of these ships can be buffed to be more useful in the new meta, I am NOT looking for more “you shouldn’t have done this in the first place” and related commentary. That’s not what I asked and not what they’re looking for.
If that’s all you’ve got, then don’t bother responding.
Folks have an opportunity now to provide feedback on what they would like to see on these ships to balance out these changes and provide that feedback. If nobody wants to do that, fine - CCP will do whatever they want (or nothing).
I’m just the messenger here.
There are a lot of mid slots on the Falcon so you could probably fit a tackle - tho - solo, you wouldn’t have enough DPS to kill a frigate. The Falcon is a recon, paper thin, no DSP and should have a role as long distance disruption.
Combat recons can deliver enough DPS to kill something of a similar size - tho - Solo with tackle, prop, web, adaptive and shield you only have room for 1 ECM module. The ECM depending on skill, range (scram /disrupt) intel (multi vs racial) - Enough successful ECM jams can buff your tank enough to win … with Luck.
Actually the rook is pretty well balanced for both solo & small fights - typically fit with just 1 or 2 ECM.
its not like a solo Curse where you know you will stomp the cap and unless the opponent has something to break your lock (like an ECM) you will win more than you lose.
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The trouble is that it was not acknowledged that only some ECM was a problem.
Some ship fit the ECM role perfectly, I have had solo fights using my Rook lasting 5 minutes or more, the balance as to who would win changing from jam cycle to missed jam cycle
The fact I’ve lost more fights than i’ve won but it keep using it is testament as to how much bloody fun it is.
Edit: Exempt the Combat* recon & Black ops (Rook & Widow) from this change they are not taunting type ships like the falcon or a mosquito like Griffin.
A widow shouldn’t arrive at a fight and go “Naaaa-Naaaa nee-na-na shoot at me” its a billion ISK ship, a screw you, screw your targeting systems in your face battleship.