Dev Blog: October Balance Pass!


(Black Pedro) #2966

You know, it is a little frustrating as an outsider to see you, me and almost everyone you ask acknowledge that the amount of ISK and other resources entering the economy is unsustainable. CCP has repeatedly agreed, yet apparently has doing nothing for years now.

I know their inaction isn’t your fault, or maybe the problem is intractable now and the fallout inevitable, but if the CSM can all at least agree on this, perhaps you can present it as one of your “unanimous top priority” issues in February?

(Unseen Spectre) #2967

I recently saw the “Ship and Modules balance presentation” from EVE Vegas with @CCP_Rise and I noted something that I find quite funny/ironic depending on how you look at it.

On the ECM change he said that it was introduced to avoid frustration and bad feelings of being jammed and then went on to say something like: “[…] Obviously, ECM pilots are not feeling good about the strength of this module […] and that is fine […]”.

I know it may not be fair since the above line is taken out of a context, but I think the irony is that it is ok to make some feel bad if you make others feel fine! And that he is using those words.

Overall, I just do not think that the buffs he is talking about will help that much (especially ECM solo pilots), but we will have to wait and see. As one note in another thread, it would have been quite fun to see the stats of the usage of ECM ships before and after the patch.

(Brisc Rubal) #2968

I think the problem is that while we all acknowledge it’s an issue, it’s not a top priority compared with other stuff that’s actively causing problems in the game - things that make playing less fun, or make folks log off. Inflation doesn’t really do that, it’s just unhealthy for the game long term. It’s something we know needs to get done, but it’s not front of mind compared to other more immediate things.

So it’s on my list, but I don’t think I could get the guys to all agree that it needs to be like top 5.

(Black Pedro) #2969

Fair enough. But we are now in the time frame of “years” this has been a concern and arguably we are already feeling the effects, what with the concerns of ‘capital proliferation’ to which it is directly linked.

In any case, keep reminding them, wherever it is in your priority list.

(March rabbit) #2970

This is strange feeling when i recall that every post “EvE has huge inflation” was met with “there is no inflation in the game because … (lots of examples)” just like half a year ago.

And suddenly everyone agrees that we’ve got a problem.

(Nevyn Auscent) #2971

I’d argue that Eve still doesn’t have an inflation issue. It has the risk of doing so though.
What it does have is a wealth inequity problem. Which creates similar effects on any item the rich care about. And super ratting drives this even more than inflation.

(BIade Runner) #2972

(Proteus Onzo) #2973


Cognitive dissonance.

(Sakura Hoshizora) #2974

So, first balance changes to ECM ships are announced, and I’m sure everyone will agree that those don’t help at all with solo/small gang combat.

(Tink Pickles) #2975

Yay. They are giving ECM ships the equivalent of a single inbuilt single t2 signal distortion amplifier, but with an extra 10% range bonus. How merciful.

That single freed up low slot will, somehow, allow us to fit a mighty tank that lets us perform the role of taunting damage sponge. Maybe if we were allowed to fit Assault Damage Controls in there it would actually be useful, but we certainly can’t do that.

No, this buff is still not worth it. We are still forced to fit multiple racial jams because of the ECM split, and that drastically compromises our ability to fit a tank to the ship. I mean, we could fit differently, but at that point we are not really going to be able to jam people, well, insomuch as jamming people is possible now.

Given we can no longer jam out an attacker, there really is no reason why ECM module strength shouldn’t be doubled, or even tripled. And certainly no reason for ships like Marauders, Dreadnoughts, and Force Auxiliaries to be immune to them.

Edited to correct a typo. P is not S.

(Fluffy Moe) #2976

That right there is the biggest thing. Maybe marauders in siege mode might be OK to leave some % of resistance, but rest just needs to be flat out gotten rid off.

(Nevyn Auscent) #2977

Not at all. Inflation is a thing, sometimes EVE has it, recent MER’s indicate we probably do have a little currently, other years have seen deflation. That doesn’t make it an issue that there is a slight bit of inflation though. You need to try actually applying your brain, not simply leaping on the first thing you see that you think lets you pick holes in someone.

Given this, we actually could go with the suggestion about ECM modules decreasing target lock number, with no RNG involved at all. And a single ECM on a bonused boat like a falcon being enough to remove 8 or so targets which is enough for nearly all ships (Would also give a reason to training advanced target management to 5, and to fitting the +target modules in utility slots). Or auto decrease sensor strength by x, once sensor strength reaches 0 you can’t lock any normal targets.
It would be a little weird maths wise since it would be a special version of FLOOR(“Ship Targets - ECM Strength”, “Number of ECM Boats jamming this ship”), but given you can’t shut someone down completely, you could have it automatically decrease them by x, and it wouldn’t be game breaking.

(Lugburz) #2978


(Agent 5B) #2979

100% Fail

(Xsagaroth) #2980

such a rushed change to ECM they couldnt even be bothered updating the text in the modules:
"An advanced multipurpose jamming system designed to offer blanket protection against all forms of targeting. Not as effective as the more specialized systems but is still effective against less advanced targeting systems. "

Your proposed “ship buff” to ecm boats of slightly increasing fitting and reducing signature radius is garbage. You have completely killed these ships in any small gang / solo capacity @CCP_Rise thanks for thinking of the blob alliances and no-one else.

(Arrendis) #2981

You realize that the ECM changes don’t actually impact us at all, right? That we weren’t using ECM before, and we’re not too worried about using it now? It’s aimed more at the small gang crowd.

But please, feel free to continue to imagine everything you don’t like is because of us.

(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #2982

I don’t like turnips. Damn Goons.

(techzer0) #2983

And you said you were quitting.

How can you expect CCP to produce quality when its users can’t even leave when they promise to?

Not all ships are meant to be solo. Show me your solo logi pvp ship. Or your solo pvp Jump freighter.
ECM ships with logi back up are so op in small gangs it is insane. Keep crying. Everything you say is a lie as far as I am concerned until you keep your word…and quit.

(Unseen Spectre) #2984

Except that it is very difficult to compare EWAR with remote repairs.

None of the types of remote repairs work in solo situations since the ships are designed that way and it is the same for all factions.

In terms of EWAR the EWAR types of all the factions with the exception of ECM do work in solo situations by providing a benefit to the pilot. If you want to use remote repairs as a comparison to EWAR, you should apply the same mechanic as used in the ECM change to remote sensor dampeners, weapon disruptors, and maybe even target painters. If you change all EWAR types to fleet support without any benefit to the pilot, then you can make the comparison to repairs.

Some may say that this does not make any sense, and they would be right. It makes as much sense as applying the targeting mechanic to ECM - which is none!

Currently ECM is an exception to the EWAR types in that it does not benefit the pilot in any way which - when you consider that ECM is the only EWAR available to the Caldari ships - is another factor that makes the ECM change unbalanced.

(Nevyn Auscent) #2985

If you have a read through the thread, you will see most of us who use that comparison are also in favour of TD, MD & SD having just that done to them. I’m also in favour of ECM being changed into a non RNG mechanic with this as well, it would have been OP being able to totally shut someone down but now since they can always shoot the ECM ship it doesn’t need the random element.