Yep gonna start extracting the skills and dump all ECM ships from my hanger. So sad they made them useless because CCP can’t provide a solution to how address it. I would just limit the number of targets or something but no jam for pvp? LMAO what’s the point?!!
1 Like
Obligatory can I have your stuff. I’m sure I can still find good places to use ecm ships.
FIRST UP IS ECM
epic ccp : you survive 1minuts to 10 second lock time lool, the ecm ships are paper, seriously !! stop moaning on the ecm, this is the only way for a small gang to engage more pilots.
do you realize the nonsense? the recon are ultra fragile. the caracal is have more hp to falcon and more capacitor
all the nasty comments may be unhappy, but the truth is that players are bad in pvp and do not know counter ecm, I invite them to fly a kitsune and tell me how to survive with a kitsune that is slow, and with maximum 2k ehp … when the drones are running behind you.
for the falcon, a raven with a target painter and goodbye
NEXT UP, LET’S TALK ABOUT INTERDICTION NULLIFICATION!
ok the big bloc change claw to malediction, and is same problem!!! and counter taxi ship, Do you think about it?
because of the ticket server problem, with a fiber optic connection, with a big pc config, 6000 scan resolution, it is still impossible to tackle the inties taxi cancer. same problem for the cloak trick, impossible to tackle!!
you have nothing to change to the problems, it is not normal to have added nullification to inties. you can open a cyno, you can carry some B in cargo, and in addition tank 4 bs smartbomb, cloak, probe … without being able to catch it.
I ask that they add the aligne time to the inties, or a nerve on the stack of inertia modules and low frictions rigs
500MN HICTORS!
the only parry against the t3 nulli cloak, or astero-bot, or agile bomber, again because you tick server it is impossible to catch everything that is cloak.
we must change the mechanics of cloak!!!
the rest is good.
conclusion:
-
end of ecm
-
no change against the taxi, and against the abusive nullifcation.
-
the only counter cloak has just disappeared
4 Likes
it looks like you wanna push ppl to carbearing
all latest updates really fuckin small enteties
it not that eve is dieng…
you killin it…
so you got ■■■■ load of multiboxers harveting pixlized rocks…
YAY for you …
you killin it
2 Likes
Agreed, I was trying to perfect Widow skills but what for? Another cool ship affected by this not though of ECM decision.
1 Like
Gee, what does a rorq have with it where it would care about alpha and time in local?
This is nakedly a Blue Donut buff complete with a hidden fighter buff.
2 Likes
^This guy has a point. Griffin Navy is now useless.
3 Likes
500mn Hictors changes are NOT necessary. Proposed HIC changes are a killer in wormhole space.
Please keep it simple… an alternative solution is already available. The code is already there to restrict fitting capital mwds to subcaps. Apply the same restriction to 500mn for HICs.
That’s it! A win-win for all.
3 Likes
■■■■ changes. Address cloaking camping afk first, dont take all the goons priority.
3 Likes
Yes, that’s gatecamps for you. That’s exactly what they do, and you’re not supposed to walk away unscathed in a hauler if you tangle yourself into one.
This is where intel and scouting becomes a thing.
Every other ship and pilot has that exact same problem if they run into a gatecamp, and you want special exceptions for your hauler.
You could try blockade runners, haulers that can warp while cloaked and align pretty fast.
You could try deep space transports and hope the extra +2 warp core strength bonus and the warp stabilizers are enough, and if not it has a good tank that sometimes is enough to make it to that gate.
You could try jump freighters and avoid the gates completely.
You could always have someone go ahead of you and find a safe route, or better yet, bring a fleet of friends and even out the numbers.
At no point is it neccessary for you to single handedly thwart a gang of enemies who are attacking you because ECM.
We’re not going to agree on this apparently, but I wish you luck in finding a solution. ECM will change, and these new changes will disable your “ECM to freedom”. It’s adapt or die now I’m afraid.
Have a good night!
Every other ship can fight back.
And I don’t fly haulers. I just, you know, try to think about other peoples’ playstyles.
3 Likes
I am personally astounded at the valley of disconnect here between the development patch, and the in-game reality that players have to deal with. I know these forums and this game well enough to know that since these changes are posted online, they’re as good as done. So, arguing against them is like pissing in the wind, but I feel that these changes are so bad I have to voice against them anyway.
The ECM changes
This nerf is just bonkers. As a plethora of people have pointed out in this thread in great detail already, this change completely removes several Caldari ships from the game since their one and only purpose can’t work with the proposed change. The problem with ECM is that like any electronic warfare, it becomes a lot less useful the more people are on grid in a fight. Removing one cruiser’s DPS means nothing when the other twenty will just volley you anyway. So all EW, but especially ECM, are only ever meant for smaller engagements. Removing the smallest engagement just sadistically removes a fairly large chunk of their engagement profile for no good reason other than “People haven’t been fitting ECCM even after we ridiculously buffed ECCM”.
The proposed change nerfs ECM in a way no other electronic warfare has to deal with - the victimized ship is effectively immune to this effect in relation to the broadcasting ship. This is completely out of place can cannot be allowed to be brought into the game. Reverse this mess immediately.
Counter proposal
Instead of allowing the locking of jamming ships, tweak how ECM works in a different way. In the game, ECM has a bit much overlap with sensor dampeners. It’s mostly (not completely) the same function achieved in two different ways. I think the game would benefit from the roles being differentiated a bit by upping ECM module strength by some, perhaps 10-15% just a random starting point to discuss. Then reduce module time down very significantly and change it to a lock breaker module instead of a lock denying. Change the mechanic to “it breaks locks but doesn’t prevent a re-lock as a continuous effect”, and maybe have it cycle every ten seconds? Five? Two? Who knows, but the proposal CCP put forth is simply crazy and if it has to be changed, CCP’s way is just broken.
Nullification
The problem here is that there’s very few mechanics that can be used to do anything meaningful in fortified null space. Removing nullification from an extremely lightweight attacker is just a poor decision all-around. It’s not new either, since most games I see, people constantly clamor to nerf or eliminate scouts/fast attackers because the methods of dealing with quick strikers is radically different (but still effective) than other, slower targets. There’s actually not much attacking inty groups can do, both because of the severe limitation of their combat abilities and the vast intel networks that ensure there’s never many targets to begin with.
To pretend that all null groups don’t have vast numbers of tools at their disposal to deal with these locust swarms and already use them since it’s not a secret either just to justify making their regions that much safer by removing one of the only tools left to countering them? This is a terrible proposal that is completely blind to the reality of fighting in nullsec. There’s precious little you can often do, this is just a swift kick in the balls for no good reason.
Counter proposal
Someone on the old forums once said something incredibly wise in regards to this matter. I wish I could give credit but I’ve long since forgotten who said it. Anyway…
The problem with interceptors isn’t that they’re powerful, because they’re not. It’s just that they’re all that’s left. If you had a cat that could catch any mice except white ones, you’d only ever see white mice running around. And you might be inclined to think white mice need a nerf, when in reality, we need more counters and different ways to operate.
Instead of removing immunity, I think we need more ships of to have it, giving us more options to engage in enemy territory. Some frigates already have it and should have it preserved. T3C already have it, but we should probably look at giving it to a set of T2 cruisers, perhaps yes even the HAC. Interdictor destroyers could probably get it, as it would give them a really unique way of denying the enemy small areas of use while not being effected themselves (as opposed to HIC which have more interdiction options and better tank, but no immunity).
If someone wants to risk T2 ship prices to engage in enemy territory and not be stopped by bubble camps, more power to them. We need more options to engage enemies, not less.
500mn Dictors, FAUX, Trig
Well actually I have no firsthand knowledge of what’s going on here, so I’ll abstain from commenting other than reminding CCP to stop treating wormholers like second-class citizens. A “well this heavily disrupts this gameplay, sucks to be you, we agree we’re bad at this but here’s a vague promise to maybe someday years down the line we’ll lament about it again” is not an answer. That is really terrible business.
10 Likes
Load of BS as far as the ECM nerf is concerned.
There already are counters to it. Things like Signal Amplifiers and Sensor Boosters (and ECCM scripts).
But of course people don’t want to use those modules be cause “waaaa - I want to use those slots for other things so nerf ECM so I don’t have to use anything to counter it”.
ECM is meant to stop a target from being able to lock you (or anyone else). Allowing the ship you are jamming to be able to lock and shoot you completely defeats it’s entire purpose and makes no sense _at all_.
Why not nerf Tracking/Guidance Disruptors, Sensor Damps and Target Painters too ? And Warp scrams, warp disruptors and webs too ?
After all, if you can still target a ship that is jamming you, then you shouldn’t be slowed down by a web that someone is using against you and your guns/missiles shouldn’t be affected by disruptors targeted on you and if someone uses a warp scram/disruptor on you it shouldn’t have any effect either, right ?
Isn’t that the whole idea behind this “rebalancing” ? To nerf things that are used against you (except for the things you like to use of course). That seems to be a common theme with the nefs these days. “Waaaa - nerf those guys because I don’t want to put any effort into countering them - but buff all the stuff I like to use.”
ECM is also countered by the fact - as you well know - that it doesn’t always hit and by the fact that if the jammer doesn’t have the right ECM modules fitted he may not be able to jam a target at all.
And - as you well know - the multi-spectrum jammers are weaker than the racial jammers and less likely to jam anyone at all, especially if their targets have counter measures fitted.
And - as you well know - to be effective as an ECM ship usually means you have little or no tank (and little or no DPS either).
(That was made very apparent in the last AT tournament - as you well know.)
And the whine that 1 ECM ship could jam 3-4 Logis ?
BOO HOO. One Logi could easily rep 3-4 ships but you don’t whine about that, do you ?
If anything, the only thing that could be nerfed would be the range but if you nerf the range of the ECM modules, then you’d better nerf the range of the Logi ship modules too. (The ragescreamwhines that would happen if they suggested that would be deafening !)
It seems everything CCP (and the CSM) have been doing is geared towards the players who think the game should devolve down to “Press F1 (once), destroy (anything), brag about KB stats.”
Over the last few years, it seems that certain people have been pushing to have anything that can’t be destroyed in a single button push be nerfed because “waaaa - I don’t want to have to work to kill something because it takes away from my time playing other games.”
It seems they are trying to change the game so that no one can defend anything because “waaaa - it’s too hard to kill (whatever) if it can defend itself.”
The way it is going, and I’ll bet some are really pushing for this, is that soon anyone who joins the game and undocks will be instantly blobstomped into oblivion by gangs from one alliance until that alliance is the only one left in the game.
And CCP is letting it happen.
Total LOL at the idea that the CSM is “hard against anything that doesn’t have a counter”.
I’ll call BS on that any day.
You think ECM doesn’t have a counter and needs to be nerfed but TOTALLY ignore the fact that there is NO counter to the “cloaky camper” which has been an issue for as long as I’ve been playing (over 9 years now).
Not to mention that cloaks only distort “light” (but do not mask heat, electronic signature or metallic composition of the cloaked ship.
Not to mention that CCP already has a “decloaking” device that they reserve for themselves (and Concord) so it isn’t like it’s something they’d have to “invent”.
That mechanic is far more broken (and abused) than ECM or “500mn HICs” ever were or ever will be so the argument that the CSM is “hard against things with no counters is pure BS”.
CCP needs to WAKE UP and realize that:
a) The CSM is (obviously) not representative of the greater EVE community;
b) Risk works BOTH ways - not merely for the “defender”;
c) Nerfing (everything) is not an effective solution to players not willing to put any effort into playing the game. Make them WORK for their kills;
d) Blobganker tears are the sweetest tears of all. Listening to blobbers whine that they actually have to put effort into the game to achieve results is hilarious; and
e) Give your heads a shake and ask yourselves why is it, after all these years, that you can barely achieve 22-24,000 players logged in at a time ? By now you should be looking at 3-4 times that number (at least) being logged in at the same time.
It used to be a joke that every time a WoW player joined EVE, the collective intelligence of EVE dropped but whenever an EVE player joined WoW, the collective intelligence of WoW went up.
That was because EVE players had to be smarter and actually put effort into playing the game.
But it seems that the trend now is to dumb down the game to the point where it takes no effort at all (for a certain segment) to achieve results.
Yet the numbers aren’t growing.
Maybe all the nerfing and catering to a certain segment of the game isn’t working ?
9 Likes
Remove all ceptor nullification and does the Ranis get some love considering its nulli bonus is being removed?
~ From a solo Taranis lover
There is zero evidence as yet this will help (that remains to be seen) but it will certainly nerf certain ships and render others useless.
ECM is too complicated for a “Balance Pass”.
Tweaking a ship bonus or attribute is a relatively simple self-contained and hence appropriate change for such a “Pass”. Changing the way ECM works isn’t because it affects all modules and ships using it as well as all tactics and doctrines which rely on it. A major change like this needs more testing and trials before being implemented.
If you’re referring to these changes. Erm, no, we’re not.
Please don’t think you speak for “the rest of us”. You don’t!
9 Likes
This is my opinion only please. If anyone disagrees, please join the thread and express your opinions, whatever they may be. Please don’t just stand watching, participate fully and help choose the Eve of the future.
- I really dislike CCP’s new changes to ECM and to the Interceptors.
- And it also seems to me that pilots who enjoy wormhole life are now going to much much much more often get unavoidably and randomly locked out of their wormhole homes and thrown halfway across the Eve Universe, far far away from their chosen corporate home and from all their chosen friends. Surely this will now much more frequently and randomly and unavoidably happen when these pilots try to close up one of the entrances/exits to their wormhole home for either legitimate offensive or defensive purposes. And please remember that deliberately moving a wormhole entrance/exit to another location in the Eve universe is absolutely a legitimate offensive technique and not just a defensive one. And all of these randomly locked out wormhole pilots will then probably have to spend a large chunk of their probably very limited and very precious “Eve time” having to travel a long boring trip of 20 or 40 jumps or whatever to get back with their corp mates so they can feel useful again to their corp and to all their friends. And they really can’t even suicide their clone to get back home even one minute quicker. If most of these locked out wormhole pilots only have a very limited number of hours each week or each day to play Eve, how is this encouraging more players to actually log in and play Eve instead of playing Black Desert Online or something?
- I really dislike this October Balance Pass.
But I am usually very pleased with the overall direction and guidance that CCP normally brings to everyone’s favorite universe. However I hope that CCP’s recent acquisition by Pearl Abyss did not result in what I believe is a really serious series of mistakes in judgement as proposed in this newest Balance Pass.
And even though I absolutely completely disagree with totally everything that our CSM representative, Brisc Rubal, is saying here, I applaud his very obvious professionalism and his obvious complete dedication to everything Eve. And I support his right to have any opinion whatsoever and express it. And I also support everyone else’s right to respectfully express any opinion that they want to on both sides of this very contentious issue. Bravo to everyone who is completely engaged in this difficult fight over the future of Eve and who, by doing so, keeps supporting my favorite universe with both their presence and their own level of game dedication. Without pilots being passionate about anything and everything Eve, this universe that we all fly around in would be a boring place indeed.
Now please watch our universe heat up. Isn’t that a good thing? Constant change, even huge changes, are surely good, aren’t they? Especially huge changes which bring out such an instantaneous and massive response from dedicated pilots like all the proposed changes here have. Without constant change, everyone will almost surely log off forever pretty darn quick. And please remember that your enemy in this game isn’t necessarily a better pilot or a worse pilot than you are really. They just choose to play the game differently than you do.
3 Likes
Totally removes the only defense for barges, exhumers, and industrials… Very bad idea…
4 Likes
Oh my f’ing god, YES, YES YOU CAN EXPECT THAT. THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF COUNTERPLAY MODULES. WHEN CCP BUFFED ECCM MODULES YEARS AGO IT WAS WITH THAT EXACT EXPECTATION. How are you on CSM and not know that?
You heard it here first, folks. Dude from CSM - “You can’t expect people to actually fit the counterplay module”
9 Likes
when are you gonna buff tracking disruptors.
Great changes. If you do plan on buffing ECM, I want to see a good counter buff as well, such as making Auto-targeting missiles especially dangerous to ECM boats. That way we won’t see brick tanked ecm boats running the show in every engagement.