woooooooooooooooooowwwww… You can’t expect people to actually fit the counterplay module” serioulsy!!! so what is the point of modules again?!!
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Following on your line of thought… then we can’t expect every single ship to fit warp stabilizers on the off-chance that they run into someone with warp disruptors. Or batteries on the off-chance that they encounter neuts. And really what counterplay does a scrammed T1 industrial has in low/null?
So the whole point of EVE is fitting some mods on the expectation that opponents may or may not fit some other mods. I don’t really see why some pilots should be treated specially.
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Apparently they’re entirely cosmetic now. You just put them on for appearances and for making your killmail look interesting.
1 Like
such drastic ECM nerf is begging for full skill point reimbursement in all related skills.
and while at it Interceptors too should be reimbursed too.
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OK ECM is awful but cloaky camping indefinately in a system is not? There are counters to ECM already, and it’s been nerfed years ago and this is the solution? To make ECM totally useless with the tons of paper thing caldari ships that rely on it? Why fly Caldari then? Put your mind to it and really think this through. It’s an abosulte cop-out and zero creativity. So by doig this, what do you intend to come up with for the following hauls since they are basically useless:
Blackbird
Falcon
Rook
Griffin
Kitsune
Scorpion
Window
Those are now useless ships! You get this right?!!!
4 Likes
That’s not contributing to the subject. What don’t you like about it? How would you have handled the permajam problem?
As a primary interceptor pilot in many theaters since 2009 I am going to start by clearly defining the role of the interceptor in my wide experience base. My intention is to provide experience based game play examples for the state of interceptor from the perspective and flight styles I have flown over the years to assist with balance and provide further ideas for defining a good place for the class of ship.
From my perspective the intention of the interceptor as a class of ship is to allow one to catch targets in poor strategic positions, by being mobile. The class boasts one of the highest possible warp speeds, without sacrificing other important attributes that would render a ship combat non-effective. The class also boasts a very strong signature reduction to the Microwarpdrive, offering some of the highest speeds while maintaining the ability to “speed tank” this means that on grid the interceptor can operate with general impunity to put itself into positions that other ships would not be able to get into to prevent approaching aggressors from getting into advantageous positions. Hence the name interceptor. Lastly the interceptor excels at getting into positions of strategic importance and relaying Intel in the large theater, their bubble immunity offers them the ability to slip through otherwise un-passable terrain, their speed allows for the insertion to advantageous positions for allies.
The first role of the interceptor in practice the class performs well in a few instances. Let me run you through a few scenarios. In a game play situation where the interceptor is chasing an opposing fleet the class excels in a gate to gate race the chance of the interceptor getting into a position where his intended initial tackle role is able to be performed is high. This holds true all the way down to the destroyer class fleets. A skilled pilot can make a catch as the enemy fleet aligns and warps out especially if the fleet is not taking fleet warps or moving slightly independently, or has varied ship types. Specially fit interceptors might be able to catch frigate targets but it’s very hard for even an experienced pilot to do so in this chase situation. (gate camping is a different story) I personally feel that giving chase to a fleet and nabbing a priority target is one of the most fun things you can do in an interceptor. I would say that most interceptors perform this role well.
On the flip side of this coin is the role of catching a non combat target in transit, and there are many techniques and mechanics that foil an interceptor in these situations. Warp core stabilization, Cloak MWD trick being two of the common factors dispite these tactics I don’t really have too much complaint catching a transport ship is of sorts a holy grail of interceptor piloting because it’s hard to do when faces with experienced pilots. If you wanted interceptors to perform this role better you might consider giving them +1 point strenght or some way to decloak at a longer range. I personally would say that this is probably not nessicary.
The last scenario in this first role is one of catching a target “doing something” in space. In this particular case while the interceptor has many advantages to doing so mechanically it is very hard for a pilot to catch a PvE target such as a VNI just based on the way the game mechanics play out. The most glaring issue with this scenario is that the element of surprise is often blown far before the interceptor can even assess the situation. So lets do this step by step even ruling out Intel channels and other methods of safety for deep space pilots, and those in vulnerable positions.
Firstly an interceptor pilot jumps into a system, he is known as soon as he does so. Start the clock. For the first second or two the pilot waits for the scan HUD to display or begins looking for targets using the tracking camera, in those first few seconds a jumpy, aligned and aware VNI pilot has hit the warp button and is already gone, but lets assume that does happen and the VNI pilot didn’t do that. In the next few seconds, lets say 5 to 10 seconds, the human pilot uses D-scan to narrow down the possible sites the target could be in. If the VNI pilot wasn’t aligned he should be within the first 10 seconds. If at this 10 second mark the interceptor pilot has not found the site of the target the hope of making a catch is pretty slim, dependent on VNI error rather than player skill and ship-type, but lets say the VNI is still in his site, from here it’s going to be probably another 3-7 seconds before the interceptor can land on grid, and perhaps 1-3 seconds of burn time to get into range of the VNI, this situation is similar even for the largest ships, in the cases of supers the interceptor can’t even stay on grid with the target, nor effectively pin said target. I feel that this 20 second window is too small. I think that either changing the local interaction to be more interesting and dynamic, perhaps control point based, or giving the interceptor a head start would be reasonable. PvP activities often arise from catching targets out like this, and escalations to full scale combat is the desire of any small roaming gang. In this regard, null in my personal opinion is too safe as the interceptor, cannot perform it’s role, resulting in many jumped gates with little to show for it. Which leads to boring and static game play at least from my perspective.
The second role I touched on for the interceptor is the on grid “anti-tackle” role I feel that the interceptors with 3-4 mids perform this role very well. It is one of the most risky and skill intense things an interceptor can do, it requires often that the interceptor be in the danger range of scramble, a slow interceptor is a dead interceptor. It is also one of the more exciting things to do, screening a target can be the make or break of an engagement and puts both the interceptor pilot at risk and prevents the incoming ship from making a power play. The increased range of the scramble makes this play possible, without it the momentum of an interceptor may not be able to carry it back into a position where it can reactivate it’s MWD. In this role speed and tank play a big role, and interceptors are notoriously under-tanky. I don’t think that interceptors need a change here but it might be interesting to give them a mild active rep bonus or even a temporary speed injection on top of the overheat. I personally favor the active rep on the stiletto over the buffer because it offers me the ability to disengage rep up and reload and get back into the fight, where a similar buffer fit taking damage would put me out of the fight much longer. The spare seconds that this might provide might give the interceptor just enough to get out of the danger zone. Interceptors with 3 mids or fewer cannot perform this role as effectively as they will likely favor a long point in their second mid prioritizing sustainable tackle over screen or in some cases a cap booster. That said, variance between ship types and fitting layouts is important.
DPS is almost never the concern of the interceptor pilot, even if fit specifically for dps and sacrificing very valuable speed it is rare to see interceptor fits boasting over 100 dps. The weapons systems in my opinion are often not needed in a fleet role, your fleet is your dps. I personally favor probes allowing that utility to get a fleet out of a dead end. In the rare case I do fit guns in the highs they are for drone control as drones are often one of the biggest threats to an interceptor on a combat grid forcing him to leave or at least maneuver out of position. Fozzie claw is one of the exceptions to this the other being the Taranis and perhaps also the Raptor.
Lastly I want to touch on the recent changes to both the claw and the proposed changes to the combat interceptors. The fozzie claw saw it’s day when the changes to null combat combined with the number in null combined to address new issues with new game mechanics. The claw boasted a volley damage of about 1300, and a projection to around 20km. It was this volley damage combined with it’s speed that allowed it to be very effective in finding and eliminating vulnerable and often stationary, unsupported targets entosising nodes in null. It leveraged the agility of the class combined it with the fast lock time of the interceptor leaving counter measures in the dust as groups of 50+ would warp in on an isolated target or even a fleet pick a target to alpha and extract. The previous blob mentality of null blocks favoring High tank slow and centralized fleets, excelled at holding single positions in a theater that demanded multiple positions be held. To say that there was no counter however is incorrect. with proper application of smart bombs, proper timing of doomsday, fast-locking gate camps or capital assets holding strategic objectives the claw becomes more of an annoyance than a threat. The complaint is not one stemming from a possiton of overpowered ship but one that reflects on the ability of the interceptor to excel at it’s role, which is to find vulnerable targets, or targets in poor strategic positions. The complaint also comes from the unwillingness to adapt or the inability to innovate, the large block alliances favor warm bodies in a single doctrine. The number of FC’s that used armor legions to chase around the claw was astounding, and showed a lack of understanding. The idea of having a separate claw control fleet was seemingly disagreeable or lacking in leadership. Having participated in the North War evicting goons the fozzie claw was employed against NC. by Co2 and it was quickly found that simply holding positions with carriers ready to light cynos and get backup was effective at winning the strategic day, additionally holding choke points in constellations and good strategic Intel allowed smart bombs and doomsday to be employed.
The fozzie claw is one of the only ships that can hope to get into choke point null regions such as delve and be effective under a super umbrella, and live to tell the tale. Supers in most regions can drop with impunity with no real sub capital counter measure available. Taking such a ship out of the mix to me feels like a poor choice as vs capitals the best they can do is run baring exceptionally large blobs. To take bubble immunity without giving something back renders the combat interceptor not much different than a similar T1 with better resists and poor dps. Leveraging and interceptors speed in a combat role there are many other superior options, such as, Tristan, worm, retribution, ect.
Likewise the role of the combat interceptor is already pretty small, in this respect a wolf might perform the role better all things considered. I myself have swapped over to a jaguar to perform the combat screen role as it boasts a similar speed, and nearly double if not more tank compared to a fleet interceptor, and while I sacrifice a little bit of point range the AF performs quite well.
I think these changes are in poor form, and may end up rendering the interceptor obsolete, given that I as an interceptor pilot since 2009, have swapped to a ship more suitable to the role I know so well.
7 Likes
LIke anything else, if you run out of Ammo, what do you do? You re-load. Put the ECM on a timer and shorten range for starters if a change is needed?
So you jam a ship and it doesn’t break it’s target lock?
Seriously?
WotYouSmokinMate?!?
Worst idea ever…
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When you Micro Warp drive, it has to spool right? Why can’t ECM do the same? It would break lock while it spools.
Besides, if you can lock a ship jamming you then why jam in the first place? Now THAT’s the worst idea. lol
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ECM is a jam of the target to everything. Being able to counter-attack the jamming ship punches a hole in the concept. Instead of this proposed change how about put the penalty on the jammer; it can’t warp or the prop mod is inactive for 60 seconds after a jammer activation.
Remove all interdiction nullification, that would be the better solution. All the interdiction nullification.
1 Like
Same for ECM, just get rid of it all ECM together! Pointless to have a mod in your ship you can’t use, particualrly when the ship is MADE of it with bonuses. Completely defeats the purpose or concept.
Being jammed IS annoying and aggravating. But I believe it’s the LENGTH of time that really annoys me. If my Gnosis can pump out 500 damage per SECOND, a 20 second jam cycle negates 500*20=10,000 potential inflicted damage (plus the time spent relocking the target). THIS is where it’s OP. This change will be nice I think, but you’re not really fixing the problem, you’re just forcing the dying ship to primary the jammer.
Essentially you’ve created a miniature FAX. The targets can’t kill what’s shooting them, so they HAVE to kill the tanky ECM boat first.
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pretty much all ECM focused boats are paper thin , ECM is the only offense and defense they have.
So this balance pass is taking everything w/o giving anything in return.
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You didn’t read the whole article. They said they will buff those ships to compensate for their new vulnerability.
I agree, I hate them too, this is why I fly them. But if you kill the purpose, then just kill the whole ECM concept. If not then put a limit timer on it. Just like most things have a time except cloaky camping. That should have a timer also cause I do it all the time.
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They have comparable tank to other ships in their class. People just max out ecm at the expense of tank and make them paper thin.
You can fit plenty of tank to them if you choose.
That complaint is like saying an ABC with no tank fitted is paper thin. Well fit some tank.
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they have bonuses for ECM instead of tank(some do have useless DPS) bonuses.
this mean they do worse than comparable ship in class.
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Not sure if you have fitted many ECM boats, but a BC can take out most ANY ECM haul. Scorp is the only one with most tank cause it’s a BS. Even in the BS class, the scorp has little tank comparing to other BS.
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