Permanent ban, public tar and feather first, then do investigation to make sure you are right. That is the Viking way.
Im teetering on the edge of disbelief that ccp literally wouldnt have investigated 1st before banning people; like my brain says everyone is guilty because ccp ACTUALLY investigated first…
and then theres this little voice laughing like a maniac in the background saying ‘‘yeh lol riiightt’’
You’re forgetting that we all have agreed to the eula. All companies have defense against such, even if they would be not in the right.
“Everyone’s guilty of something SO no harm done, ey!?”
My gods, you Americans can be so damn arrogant and self-important when you carry on about your stupid legal system and how you think it is both better than, and supercedes every other country’s system.
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I’m a bit puzzled by all the comments that suggest CCP acted on a whim and are only now trying to get evidence. From their statement I do not get that idea at all:
Following this statement, we have held further discussions with the affected parties. We have also been conducting an internal review to substantiate the evidence available to us and evaluate our handling of the situation. We intend to share a full follow-up statement next week.
(bolding mine)
If the words of one poster here are to believed a major legal battle is threathened by the good ol’ US citizens standing up for the “innocent until proven guilty” [cough] Guantanamo Bay [cough] axioma.
If so, you bet CCP are going to check/see how, and in what measure, the evidence stackes up if it were to come to court.
This does not mean they hadn’t any evidence to begin with.
As should be expected, we will issue a full and frank apology for any mistakes for which we are responsible, as well as provide appropriate reparations to those affected by any erroneous actions we’ve taken.
This also appears are a safety valve for now, again if the poster is correct about the ‘cease and desist’ notice etc.
It only says “for any mistakes for which we are responsible”, not that there already are any to which this applies.
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You are puzzled? Most criticism has been directed at their failure to check with Brisc first which was rather unprofessional especially in relation to someone who is in the public eye. I have been listening to what certain people from Initiative have been saying which has been calm measured and respectful, unlike you:
You seem a bit upset and uptight.
I should also point out that I had some exchanges with Brisc on a number of occasions especially on war decs and from what I had seen of him I just could not see that he would deliberately break the NDA. I just could not believe it.
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The disappointment will be real for those who could not hide their glee that a “goon” and “real life lobbysist” got banned. Kudos for INIT remaining “calm, measured and respectful,” but I do wonder if those who were wildly not so would be as mature as CCP and be forthcoming with an apology too.
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actually knowing some of the banned people made me think twice, and then further comments made by ccp or in certain channels has made me think that there is in fact something strange afoot.
‘knowing’ being a loose word but the impression i got from flying under them gave me a certain impression; if it was just brisc id be pretty certain foul play was involved but i should iterate again that this isnt because i know him but more because of my opinions about politicians in general.
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I imagine it’d go like this…
CCP: Well, Brisc, did you perpetrate the deeds you were accused of?
Brisc: Of course not! I’m innocent! How dare you! I’ll have you know I’m a lawyer! I couldn’t possibly behave illegally!
CCP: Alright. Off you go then. Carry on.
Actually no, in a he said she said, you do need to find out what he said.
In any case I keep saying that from the interactions I had with Brisc I just cannot see him as being someone who would deliberately break the NDA. In fact I found him immensely impressive.
In fact whatever the outcome, I do not expect Brisc to be reinstated nor wish to continue on the CSM.
PS - Not all lawyers and politicians are crooks…
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Neither are the working classes but it doesnt stop them treating us like such 
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Yes, but if you ban first and investigate later you’re likely turn an otherwise happy customer into an unhappy one, even if you reverse the ban later. This is a business after all, so pissing off customers should be at least frowned upon.
The idiom that springs to mind is, “Measure twice, cut once” and not “Kill them all and let God sort them out.”
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Agreed. I do actually know a few good ones of each class. They are a minority, however.
I would like to think that the guy would have respect for a NDA. But all everyone here is doing is speculating on heresay. I eagerly await CCP’s next statement.
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Sorry, I don’t understand the purpose of the CSM. It is a one-way communication method that provides CCP information and none to us. For CCP, it holds false value. You can get the same input without paying for tickets to Iceland and all the other incurred costs.
Let’s face it, has any CSM input ever resulted in a 10% or more increase in CCP revenue? We already know that answer is no. Start acting like a for-profit business and less like a ship balancing, begging for more free-loading alpha account baby sitter.
If I ran my business like you do, I’d be downsizing right this very second to reduce costs based on reduced income and even more reduced income over the projected coming years. Oh wait…never mind….you’re doing that right now. 
For those too blind to see it, I am not criticizing CCP. I am just confirming what they already know, a gentle little wakeup reminder.
Hey CCP, save a ton of real money. Shutdown the CSM…it will remove all the in-fighting over who gets elected (see rigged meme). Just use very detailed information requests, surveys to each (subscribed not PLEX’d) Omega account.
WARNING! HARD TRUTH SPOILER ALERT! - Subscribed and PLEX buying members need to have much more separation from the others with value attached. Don’t get lost in the comments, paying members are your bread and butter. Everyone else is just cannon fodder (aka content).
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I am also English and my father was born into a very poor working class family. I would suggest that a certain brave Englishman from Luton is a good example of the contempt that the other classes have for working class people.
The UK establishment is so dishonest now that I don’t trust them in terms of anything, and saying that hurts.
I was involved in the war dec discussions and I had exchanges with Brisc on the forum on that and on other things, I saw someone who was patient, listened to people tried to be respectful even when provoked numerous times and the one time he reacted in a slight pompous way was due to someone getting at him with raw insults. He obviously cared to speak to people outside of his peer group and in my experience people like that don’t tend to be crooks.
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No, it means they didn’t actually verify the accuracy of the ‘evidence’ that someone else gave them. Otherwise, the wording would have been more along the lines of ‘re-confirm’ or ‘re-verify’, or otherwise indicate that they’d already verified the veracity of the evidence in question.
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You mean like how a certain individual who isn’t on the CSM, and so wouldn’t have direct information, was offering up logs of the whole thing to any journo who’d listen?
no no, some other people know the people that are banned and y’know, people talk. Discord and such, no logs or anything like that.
Theres someone on reddit ‘offering logs’ and such though isnt there?
Honestly i must admit i argue with a great many people on here and sometime i may even say some mean things but then along comes a true nutjob that gives you perspective.
The primary purpose of the CSM is to prevent CCP from making absolutely massive missteps like those that led to the incredibly bad state of the Incarna release. None of the things that people have gotten upset about in the last 8 years have come close to Incarna.
Further, CCP has demonstrated an impressive lack of ability to foresee the impacts of their changes, and generally don’t actually understand the ‘boots on the ground’ mechanisms of their game. They look at things and think ‘this idea takes this mechanic we see being used lots over here, and ports it over there where it will make things better’. The CSM, in theory, is supposed to be the people able to tell the devs ‘this will not work, and here’s why’. It’s worth noting that, for example, entosis sov’s utter failure (and it has been an utter failure) came at a time when actual communication between CCP and the CSM had broken down due to individuals who are no longer involved in either side of the equation.
We don’t know that at all. For one thing, the CSM isn’t allowed to tell us what changes were their ideas. They’re also not allowed to tell us what changes they’ve prevented. For all we know, the CSM has directly resulted in CCP not losing 90% of its revenue over the last 10 years. The fact of the matter is, there’s a lot of things we don’t know about the decision-making process, and trying to single out any element and say ‘THIS IS COSTING YOU MONEY YOU SHOULD SHUT IT DOWN’ without that information is foolish. CCP have that information, and should be constantly reviewing their processes, just like any other corporation. As has been indicated elsewhere, the CSM concept is not unique to CCP. It is not even particularly novel to CCP.
For the record, multiple developers have stated that in fact, CCP is now expanding payroll, not downsizing.
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