I honestly dont get why so many have an issue with some players being risk adverse in high sec, heck, im sure some more safty in high sec would have done wonders for player retention.
And speaking of risk adverse, by far the most risk averse are the 0,0 ratters that even have programs to ping them when hostiles comes into systems close by, wouldnt you agree?
By the time you jump into some systems in 0,0 these days, the ratters have already docked up ffs
As ship kill is always ISK loss there is much motivation to avoid it by paying attention to local and d-scan
I agree with you, when me and my corp mate’s move through high sec we are on high alert, in null its pretty safe, but then that does have to do with the - security status and being at war + being in caldari/amarr high sec as a gal fw member xD
But personally my problem with Risk Aversion, is that it is hurting both side’s and is from a game perspective a barrier to potential enjoyment. As the player’s that are running the safe site’s are pouring hundreds of hour’s into farming when they can pour a lot less time while achieving the same, but at the cost of danger and excitement.
I spent the first year and a half in high sec because the people I met taught me that way, “low/high was for trolls that wanted to make your life hell” is the message that was drilled into my brain and eventually the corp collapsed and I went to see for myself and regretted not going sooner, so naturally It pains me to see people making the same mistake.
That’s only the pve side of the risk aversion coin, the other side is pvp. Nothing makes you appreciate a fight more than living in a lonely region mine was Syndicate you would roam for hour’s 2-3 with finding nothing but ratters who dock up as soon as you enter local and then go afk. After a few of these roam’s you get so despite for pvp that you would even fight 1 vs 20 just to try and get that 1 ship kill out of that fleet. I kinda wish everyone would experience that so that the next time a small group or solo pvper’s enter their space that they don’t take that for granted and go and make the most out of that pvp opportunity win or loose it doesn’t matter, a good fight is always a lot more fun than a blob or gate camp where its like O! I just got 50 kills camping a gate today but I didn’t actually enjoy any of it type of feeling.
Human nature. People who have stuff don’t want to lose their stuff. They spent time and effort getting that stuff. The more stuff they have, the more time they’ve put into getting it. Eventually, the time you spend getting something is worth more to you than the brief time you enjoy getting it blown up.
And really, ‘getting it blown up’ isn’t the fun part. Not really. Sure, getting it blown up occasionally is fun. For the most part, though, blowing up someone else’s stuff is where the fun is. If you’re consistently losing your stuff, and not blowing up someone else’s stuff, then you’re not going to keep doing that thing.
At the same time, do you fly things bigger than Frigates? Why? Think about the answer to that as we go, because it’s the essence of the whole thing. People get bored of just flying the same thing again and again. They want to fly new stuff. Better stuff. You graduate from frigates to destroyers to cruisers and so-on. And eventually, that means capitals and supercapitals. And people want to use those things.
But how long does it take to get a supercarrier? How long does it take to get a titan? Long enough that you don’t throw them away all that quickly. So the little stuff is boring—you’ve been there, done that to death—and the big stuff takes too long to replace. It’s just not worth throwing crap away.
Welcome to ‘risk averse’ gameplay. People want their stuff to be worth the time they put into getting it. That’s hardly an unreasonable desire. How much is a month of your life worth to you? Gimme the figure in ISK, so I can offer it to you in exchange for putting you in a chemically-induced coma for a month, and we’ll see if you’ll really take that trade.
‘averse’. no ‘d’.
By your quote’s I’m not even human xD Monday to Sunday is the best day’s for frigate roams! Getting them blown up in a blaze of glory is the best feeling in the world.
While moving seamlessly through a bunch of emptiness for hours without someone trying to kill you is the most loneliest feeling in the world.
No, you’re just not bored with them yet.
Do you still do all the same things you did 10, 15 years ago?
Do something about the Relic/data hacking bots that’s roaming around in null. There are more and more of them every day. I’m not kidding. DO SOMETHING!! Ridiculous this can continue xD
Interesting, so personally would it make more logically sense to still allow level 4 and 5 missions to alpha’s but in exchange keep them boring or make them even more boring so people move on quicker, lower the isk generated from them and have a follow up more dangerous activity that those missions naturally lead to that is highly entertaining, so that those player’s running it feel like they are progressing.
I know the feeling, which is why ive been advocating arenas in eve, where you can get 1vs1, 3vs3 and 5v5 for those pvp’ers that dont have time to roam for hours upon hours just to get hotdropped by more supers then you have normal ships (happend last night as well).
No. You never want to intentionally make content boring. That just shows a complete disrespect for your customers. If anything, the content itself should be more engaging… and require more engagement. The ideal here is to make missioning something you do for fun, not profit. The profit should be the side-effect, the ‘cherry on top’ of having fun. Right now, that’s reversed.
Arenas are bad. Any time you enclose your PvP into ‘matches’ where the numbers and access is strictly constrained, you’re hurting EVE. You create an ever-increasing expectation of ‘fairness’ where none exists, and none should exist.
An example of this: Did He Say Jump has been hitting an astrahus in lowsec. The defenders are slowly being ground down on the timers. Not that they’re losing, but having to show up at a specific time, call in friends, etc etc, it’s all wearing them out. It’s grindy. Friday night, they had one of these defenses, and yeah, they chased off the other group… by bringing superior numbers, and more friends. And then all hell broke loose. DHSJ started bringing in caps to try to save their Gilas. The fight moved to Starkman Prime Arzad, where DHSJ had their stager. Soon, Snuff dropped caps on DHSJ. Then everyone starts batphoning an dogpiling onto Snuff.
The two antagonists in the original fight, PIE and DHSJ, end the night on the same side on like 40b in BBC capital kills. And literally everyone is laughing their butts off… except maybe Snuff. 
Arenas kill that. Because the more you give people arenas, the less they go out and make content like that happen for themselves. They don’t hunt. They don’t hit targets of opportunity. And ‘free range’ PVP dies. Just like the 200-players-on-a-side, who-needs-groups fights in Tarren Mill mostly died out in WoW after the introduction of Battlegrounds (and even more with Arenas).
Arenas are bad.
The problem is that mission’s are pretty boring as it is, they are repetitive, serve no purpose besides increasing standings and isk and take age’s to finish and worse of all gives people unrealistic expectations of a fight.
Standing’s them selves only serve to increase your reward’s for future missions and not even by much, so eventually the only reason people are still missioning after let’s say 3 week’s is for the isk.
The question then become’s is it worth investing development time into making them more fun and engaging without linking them with some other goal other than isk generation.
Something that could work as a way to get people into a good head space is the idea of loosing your ship but making a big enough dent in a bigger goal that it become’s worth it, such as fighting for your faction and maybe earning something when your side win’s.
So what about this: Level 1, 2, 3 stay the same, people that do level 1 2 and 3 will always try to get to lvl 4, progression wise. So then 4 could lead to making it feel ok to leave high sec afterward’s. In a way it becomes a way for people to get their feet wet and learn to be fine with it.
The idea: Level 4 missions are dual mission’s, once the mission is accepted it gives you a few minute’s to burn over to the location system, for example your running a gallente level 4 mission it ask’s you to fly to the border of the gallente / caldari zone once you warp to the mission you find that the caldari pilot that accepted their mission has chosen to use a battle cruiser while you had a battle ship so they got to the mission before you and have started killing your NPC’s but you have more firepower so you fire back at their NPC’s and eventually one of you eliminated the entire enemy side of npc’s before the other and that side win’s the fight without having to kill the other player NPC death = win condition. The player’s get to compete with other pilot’s which break’s away from current mission problem’s of mostly solo vs npc.
Other benifit’s would be learning that e-war / logi might be a better strategy to getting your side to win/ which train’s people naturally on using those system’s. Maybe level 5’s would be the same thing but with groups of players and so on, this way these player’s would feel like they have enough knowledge to venture deeper out of high sec afterwards.
Totally agree there. Improving the PvE is simultaneously something CCP needs (and has been trying) to learn to do, and something that gets massive amounts of derision from a lot of the PvP-oriented players, because it doesn’t directly cater to their play style. Forget that most of their targets are PvEing, so more engaging PvE means more targets out there. Forget that their own money ultimately comes from PvE, so they might actually enjoy it… no no, it’s not ‘I wanna make someone else’s day suck’, so they whine about CCP putting in any work on it.
vOv
And e-war’s generally ok… but Logi needs a fix. A real fix, top to bottom. One that doesn’t just result in ‘bring more’ or ‘bring bigger’ logi, too. And that’s a hard thing to find.
For the 5 man gangs with limited time that keeps getting dropped on by supers, they are far from bad.
You gotta look at it from all sides, not just your own.
Arenas wont kill that kinda pvp, cause fights over area, assets, moons etc will still happen.
Dear CCP Falcon,
I have been pondering the relationship between coalition/corp leadership and botters, in the context of peer review and enforcement. In some environments peers (or players in eve) can help “normalise” the truth (such as peer reviews in wikipedia) or help root out wrong doers (such as whistleblowers in real life). However, to achieve this in Eve, peers / players need the tools to identify botters - otherwise all they can do is report them based upon simple patterns and guess work.
Now CCP, under GDPR cannot release information about individual players to other players, so the CCP tools need to remain internal. It is difficult for Coalition/Corp leadership to prove botters - they certainly do not have “liability” for other players legally, nor should CCP think this responsibility can be delegated to the community. This makes it hard for CCP to target the Corps indiscriminately, as much as I would like “bad Corps” to be penalised.
Perhaps the answer is to make lucrative bounties reduce as a character’s “reputation” is reduced. This can occur by reporting a player, specific CCP action (after investigation) and by AI looking at unusual (or usual botting) patterns. If a botter spends 24 hrs making what a normal player makes by participating for 1 hour, the problem goes away.
In life reputation is everything, in the virtual world Ebay has be using it for years. It may also dovetail into CCP’s other mechanics and perhaps player community filters and decisions (recruiting etc).
Food for thought.
Don’t forget the boundaries of privacy, scripts and AI when considering any clever solution.
Kuni
How will arena fights where lets say its max 5 vs 5 ever hurt that kinda pvp?
Hell, very few ppl would even dare do 5 vs 5 or any sort of fair fights, so i dont get what the issue with actually providing content for those few. Heck arenas are basicly what the Alliance tourney is atm
I am looking at it from all sides. I’m just looking longer-term. Arenas will kill roams. Arenas will kill recruitment, because people looking for PvP won’t need to go anywhere. They won’t need to leave highsec. Just cue up an Arena.
And space gets even emptier. As it gets emptier, who needs to fight over assets? Right now, who needs to fight over assets?
The last major war we saw, the Northern War last year, was not fought over assets. We did not hold a single system when we won. We did not take a single moon. We did not care. There was no economic reason to go on the offensive. We did it for spite.
And that will continue to be the case in null. Nobody is using their space to its maximum potential. Estimates (with the disclaimer that I am not one of our finance guys) say we could probably add another 50-100% of our current numbers to Delve without maxing out what that one region can support.
Area pvp is already in the work’s as abyssal deadspace, not sure when, but I don’t think it will hurt free range pvp at all, or anywhere near as much as current citadel mechanic’s with tethering and gun’s/web/scram/neut’s making it impossible for solo/small gang’s to go near.
Yeah, and even Elise Randolph is on-record this past weekend on Talking in Stations saying that the AT allowed PL to… wait for it… not play the game. They could just coast on their AT winnings.
Supers and caps are already doing that ffs.
You either find bots , empty space or massive capital blob these days, and im out roaming pretty much half my eve time, so i would freaking know.