in short things change. we will be fine.
I fly around in logi because I play the game to help out my friends. I donât fly around in a venture because ventures suck as logi in battlecruiser fleets.
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Well said! Chopping parts of the game that we have invested in because you guys canât or dont want to find a better solution to current issues is unacceptable.
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Fair enough so let me break it down for you apparently.
Point 1 - Greed, Drago was talking about Greed being a bad thing so I was explaining that Greed is why we play, you agreed with me here so Iâm not sure why you listed point 1 other then to say you agreed with me.
Point 2 - I never said there wouldnât be miners. My overall point was that they need miners. Drago said they didnât I was just justifying why they needed Miners.
Point 3 - Yes I also remember a time before Eve. That is a pointless point. There is always a past, things change move on and are different. I am speaking to the current play. If you canât live in the present then I donât know what to tell you.
Point 4 - Drago was saying I wasnât entitled to print ISK. I was informing him I donât feel entitled to print ISK. I feel there are plenty of risks to Rorq mining currently and that it takes effort to be able to do so effectively and safely.
We do not do this.
Max frack is 56 days. 
There are enough ships and minerals in the game that you wonât notice any effect for a long time. Not until the small roaming gangs have killed off most of the ratting supers and mining rorquals. You know, when asset safety is removed, cynos are nerfed, local is removed and capital ships are all docked up, just waiting for biannual large scale fight in some random place.
Iâm sorry that game reached to a level where there are just to many rorq/carrier/super players around. SO what? now you gonna bash everything back in place?
Not anymore, if they have the ISK or cash itâs a five minute job now.
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Thatâs your play style, everyone has something different. This is the problem, we are trying to force everyone into one playstyle when we need to find ways of accommodating a diverse set of playstyles. This will ensure that we keep new player and old player retention as high as possible.
1 )You choosing to make your rorqual a 10 billion setup is a choice not something the game throws upon you.
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I would be in favor of removing the industrial core entirely and just giving the rorqual those benefits on the base hull. (since the rorqual would be making less per hour in ISK, removing the fuel costs makes sense).
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CCP has always made it clear that training into a ship when it had certain stats does not guarantee that the ship stats will remain as such, in this update some ships are seeing nerfs while others have been buffed and CCP has said nothing about SP refunds, this is their policy, not mine. I would also remind you that the rorqual was massively buffed and little extra SP was required to make your rorqual overpowered and no rorqual pilot complained when the actual value of their SP increased dramatically, nobody said; for instance, that, âwe rorqual pilots should be forced to train many more SPs in order to offset the dramatic increase in the abilities of the rorqualâ.
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I mined with 4 rorquals in grrr goons space. The panic module makes mining under a strong umbrella 100% safe as long as you follow your alliances suggestions about rorqual mining: stay on comms, have a cyno fit, donât mine while we are deployed, etc⌠(this safety level is too high, the rorqual needs to be better at defending itself, so that people not mining under a strong umbrella can choose the rorqual too but the rorqual should be more subject to large fleets killing, it even while under a strong umbrella).
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The rorqual was not originally a âminingâ ship at all, your complaint comes from the source of the problem, that pilots now expect to make more mining in a rorqual than a hulk, when they shouldnât be making mining income directly at all. My concession that the rorqual make 150% of a hulk was only to benefit solo miners enough that choosing a rorqual to mine with would still make sense.
The short of my suggestions shouldnât be looked at from my specific suggestions, what needs buffed,nerfed, cost reduced or changed would need to be determined based on these goals:
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Make solo mining in a rorqual more viable, even if no strong umbrella exists.
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Make it so that a LARGE fleet of attackers has a reasonable chance of killing a properly fit rorqual with an attentive pilot, even if that pilot was under a strong umbrella.
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return the rorqual to a fleet support ship but still make it a viable option for a solo pilot because of better yield, ability to compress ore, and large ore hold, with concurrent costs of ship and drone losses substantially reduced.
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The current iteration of the rorqual really isnt even the basis for such changes, the ship would have to be re-imagined from its current form but the end goals achieved would make the rorqual into what it should be from what it has become.
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That is exactly how CCP proposes to fix it. bash them senseless with the big old nerf hammer and then make it easy for them to be killed off in game until they do something else to make their isk. I wonder if they considered other ways to fix the stale end game.
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then we agree. actually I think my reply made it clear on that so unsure what the problem here is.
then I guess we agree here tooâŚstill dont see the problem? I made it clear eve will still have miners after these changes as it had long ago
history is not a pointless point. people so focused on the present they forget we did just fine without all this stuff and this nerf only presents a small reduction compared to what we used to be ok with a few years ago. My main point is we are still way further ahead then we were and we were fine then so we are more then fine now.
So I live in the present but unlike you I am also ready to live in the future. I have adapted to every change CCP sent, some good some bad for my play style, and I am still here. And being a long time rorqual miner these changes are mostly negative to my playstyle. But I still understand the reasons and the need and have no problem going forward.
In an way I sort of like the changes as it moves the ship more to a boosting role while still making it effective as a mining ship. Its a trade off in the right direction.
I might have totally misread your comment here. But rorqs are still safe enough for me to fly but your mileage may vary.
and dont forget the buff to mining foreman will help counteract the nerf to yield. A T1 indy core will be as good as the T2 is now. and the T2 is going to be even better.
The more I look at this the more I am happy with it rather then just accepting of it. Before I was just ok with it but it seems to be very positive overall.
This might make a nice cheap surplus of rorqs on the market for me to buy up if enough people abandon using them.
- Drone HP role bonus reduced to 250% (was 500%)
Itâs a nerf in a big way for Gila. Just try Gila in different mediocore DED 5/10 combat anomalies or Abyss T3-T4 to notice how easy is possible to lose a drone with current 500% HP buff. Better reduce the Drone DPS by a %, but keep the Drone hit points bonus on. The most filigree way to balance the Gila is to increase the bandwidth for âAugmentedâ drones to 15Mbit/sec. This will make them inapplicable for Gilas, but will left them applicable for other drone boats like Vexor with his 75 Mbit/sec. Only âAugmentedâ medium drones pushing the Gilaâs DPS from 700 to above 800 value. The Rapid Light Missiles boosts the burst DPS only, but their bonus can be reduced from 10% to 8%. These changes will not let to use cheap Gila fits to farm Abyss T4-5. In 0.0 combat anomalies almost everybody is using VNI for long time now.
- Bonus to Drone Max Velocity removed
- Signature radius increased to 145 (was 135)
How this will work for 0.0 farming BTW? With current AFK cloaky camping itâs needy in a cheap farming tool.
- Max Velocity reduced to 145 was (150)
- Mass increased to 14250000 (was 13250000)
- Agility reduced to .66 (was .63)
- Signature Radius increased to 325 (was 295)
Feels bad for Ferox. Itâs a huge nerf by all 4 agility parameters - a Shield BC weighs almost like Ammar Armor BC and he has the biggest Signature at the same time (more than a tanky Drake by default) by having the lowest speed in the class group. What this means âAgility reduced to .66 (was .63)â btw? Itâs reduced or increased?
Itâs strange that there arenât any rebalance steps for boosh fleets in this patch.
If you are looking to reduce the isk from ratting would it not be as simple as reducing the amount of bounty the npcâs you kill provide? That seems more like a way to control the amount of isk flowing into the game rather than nerfing ships ability to produce.
Your view of carriers is completely wrong too. They should be able to quickly defend against subcaps. They are anti subcap capitals. Look at real aircraft carriers. They deploy fighters to dispatch small targets quickly. They have CIWS weapons that shred small incoming missiles.
Nerfing carriers to where they cannot defend themselves is a completely wrong view of their role.
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Iâm glad that you feel positive but are you considering the fact that the ship and mineral market is very heavily oversaturated so those prices are unlikely to rise soon and the fact that the expense of running the rorqual isnât likely to drop either. Firesale rorquals for spares isnât a bad idea but just make a bunch of barge accounts. CCP would like that. Inject them if you can.
poor ferox is always getting beaten up by ccp and yet its still a decent doctrine ship we use even now.
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That is what I want from them, offer alternatives, create diversity in such a way that even current mining canât keep up, or the most harden ratters and isk printers could not sustain.
I do not mind nerfing HP levels, upping the abilities to kill ships faster, but doing that AND nerfing incomes is a 2x BASH. And nerfing Rorquals and making barges better does not really fix the problem completely, take from one side and give to the other.
Most botters use barges anyway, Iâve seen fleets with 50+ barges, and not only once, but multiple times, I reported them, and nothing happend because reporting tool doesnât have a comment section. And just making barges stronger will only make bots stronger, most of the videos of botâs Iâve seen are barge based because they are easy to replace and to manage than rorquals with drones.
Anti 90% of the ships in the game is a really stupid role for any one ship to have. Utterly awful game design that CCP is finally waking up to.
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No I donât play out of greed, I played for enjoyment.
I enjoyed mining, I enjoyed making things and selling them. Not overly massive amounts, but enough to make a small profit and cover any losses. Some players really donât play to the size of their walletâŚ
A lot of ore comes from salvage, I salvaged every single mission I ever ran. Reprocessed what wasnât worth selling to buy orders and used the rest to make rigs.
No they arenât. Well yes they are kind off. But those OP drones and such were a massive mistake in the first place, they are slowly getting put back to where they should be.
So does a miner in ANY area of space, youâre not specialâŚ