PLEX is a commodity that players spend ISK on in game. Investment players with huge loads of ISK buy and sell this commodity in the hopes of the price increasing.
As they buy and sell the pricing of PLEX increases, which then means as normal every day players sell PLEX they get more ISK for the same PLEX. This then generates increased ISK for normal everyday players who then go out and spend ISK on Ships/Modules/etc creating demand.
As an example, I point to the current price of PLEX. People are able to buy 500 Plex and sell it for almost 2Bil now. This was up from 1.5bil or 1.3 bil a few months ago.
This is due to players buying it for much lower then they sell it for a higher price creating large profits. As the investment player buys and sells, this causes normal players to buy PLEX for money and sell it on the market at the instant sell price or the current market price. Fueling this economy.
Correct. But this does not add ISK to the game. It does not generate ISK. It only moves ISK around. There is no significant market of buying PLEX low and then unloading it months later higher. Every PLEX is ultimately bought with real money, from CCP. The âinvestment playerâ youâre talking about is not a significant chunk of the market, and they are foolish. There are much higher margins to be made in much shorter periods for similarly-low effort.
Correct. It is however a outside force that has an effect on the market. Without taking the effects it has on demand/production into account, trying to manage the market(inflation) will always fail.
It is a way for normal Joe pilot to taken an outside resource, spend that resource( iâm pointing this out because that outside resource does not have an effect on the ingame market) and buying a ingame commodity that does have an effect on the ingame market.
Then normal Joe pilot has more ISK without taking anything from the ingame market out of play.
This means that he offsets any reduction in production/isk generating behaviors with buying Plex.
As far as the PLEX traders, they fuel a market that helps to offset market controls. Which is why I brought them up.
The PLEX market will always have an effect on inflation in game. Always. If itâs left how it is, reducing the means of production or reducing the means of ISK generation will always be limited in achieving itâs goal of inflation management.
Which is what was brought up as a reason for these changes by a CSM.
This goes back to my original reasoning on that this change is a pointless change that will not achieve what itâs trying to while affecting small operators the worse creating a lack of diversity in the EVE community as far as alliances/corps goes.
There are a number of more effective fixes, both long term and short term that can achieve a healthy game economy, game environment, and player enjoy-ability.
That normal Joe pilot has to get that ISK from someone. That means he is, right there, reducing the pool of available ISK that people are willing to part with. This reduction in supply presents an upward pressure on the value of ISK, and a commensurate downward pressure on the value of everything else, which reduces inflation.
You, right now, have direct access to the people who understand the EVE economy better than anyone else in or out of the game. Join gs_isk on jabber and talk to them about whether or not these changes are good.
Incorrect. Isk is not taken from Someone. In EVE ISK is created by Ratters or Mission Runners. This in and of it self means there is not a finite amount of ISK.
Meaning Eveâs economy is not a closed loop economy where taking ISK out of the picture directly can affect it.
ISK is created by Ratters of Mission Runners.
Joe pilot selling PLEX, the guy youâve been talking about, is not getting his ISK directly from either of those sources.
He is getting his ISK from other people who did get their ISK from those sources (or from people who got their ISK from people who got it from those sources, at some degree of removal).
That means he is getting his ISK from someone else.
Correct. But again in the PLEX market, because of how it acts as an outside force to the Economy.
So since the Economy is not closed loop, meaning there is the same amount of ISK coming into and from the market, and that the ISK is created by Ratters and Mission Runners, this creates a completely different market effect.
Investors with large scale banks, buy ISK for a 20% or 30% difference. They then sell this as a markup. Players buy this PLEX at the higher mark up either thinking they will be able to resell it or to use it for thier Accounts or for other items.
So because this system is in place and working consistently like that with no modifications in how it runs, it creates a market where players can then sell PLEX and make instant ISK without Ratting or Mission Running or Ore mining or Production. This then becomes unaffected ISK. Meaning any changes that are happening does not affect it.
So then there is ISK in the market that can offset Demand reduction or production reduction further contributing to inflation.
No, no, that is not accurate at all. Money is fungible. The ISK invested in PLEX is not disconnected somehow from the rest of the ISK pool, because that ISK is still moving through the market.
And any reduction (via ratting) in the influx of ISK increases the relative value of ISK, just as a reduction in resource production (via mining deceleration) decreases the relative supply of items. Without the ratting changes, the rorqual changes would drive inflation, but the ratting changes, combined with the anomaly respawn changes, creates a counterbalance (and probably more than just a balance).
Seriously, you have direct access to the experts. Talk to them. Because I am not an expert, but even I can see how flawed your very simplified model of the EVE economy is.
Except that once the PLEX market reached a critical mass it is and has become disconnected. It operates in itâs own way.
By a investor being able to sustain his own profits solely from buying and selling ISK they created a Wall Street. Which then creates an outside force beyond the principles of production and demand that effect the market.
Basically it is connected but still stands alone from demand/production. This is what happens when a Stock price is artificially raised beyond itâs actual value due to speculation or future predictions.
Your second point is correct except with the increase in subcap capabilities we will see a different meta as far as ratting is concerned so eventually this will be offset.
So yes once the demand decrease is offsest through PLEXing or through a different ratting META then the only thing left alone, RORQ production decreasing will drive inflation.
As far as talking to the experts I wasnât doing this to convince Goons. I was originally expressing my frustration with this change as I felt it was a pointless change that will not achieve itâs desired out come. Iâve been posting since then to defend point of view.
My playstyle has always been a miner. I love to mine. I love this game because it allows me to play and build while having to risk something. I was upset one because now I have to risk a lot more of my hard earned ISK while doing something that i like to do but is still boring. So it felt like CCP didnât care that they made the most boring part of their game even harder and takes longer to achive. This coupled with the aspect that I believe this change will not actually achieve anything makes it harder to swallow.
Iâve said it time and again I have no problem in the reduction of mining yield alone if it would actually reduce inflation, it wouldnât, but whatever if you disagree.
I have a problem when now I have to spend an additional 20% to 30% more time mining to mine the same amount of ore, meaning Iâm stuck doing the same thing longer. I then have less time to take that ore, sell it for the same amount, go buy a ship and do something fun.
I donât like spending 10 hours mining. I liked being about to spend 2 or 3 hours mining and then going out and doing fun things. Now itâs 3 or 4 hours mining and maybe an hour to do something fun.
Thatâs the point. Thatâs where it all came from.
Everyone started harping about inflation so I had to prove that this will not affect inflation in the way they want. People started harping on the long term health of the game, I had to prove this isnât going to improve the long term health of Eve, itâs just consolidate power and lower the diversity of content.
Changes have to happen. But they shouldnât happen just because 50 guys on reddit are posting they want nerfs to Rorqs.
They should happen because there is a real and pertinent need to change things that will lead to a better future. All of my posts have gone to showing this change doesnât lead to a better future, itâs either more of the same or less diversification in content.
Remember carriers and supers existed for years before there was ever an NSA . Fighters and Figher bombers worked basically like mega heavy drones and were SLOW, likely you could out run them with nano-battlecrusiers slow.
People still used carriers then.
A ratting carrier likely had 5 drone support modules (when they added an extra drone to control) and was sitting over a rack of 10 sentries, because the fighters were so slow you rarely used them outside of battleship fightsâŚ
âŚand battleship fights actually happened because you COULD fight on grid with capitals, if you wanted to kill capitals you had to hold subcap supremacy on grid first.
The Nerf to VNI means you need a slightly more pricey fitâŚbut overall there isnât a huge change. Specially for more advanced toons, its going to mangle the alpha ratters though.
The reduction in ISK generation on its own will help offset inflationâbecause no matter what other factors you bring into it, those factors are already in play.
The reduction in efficacy of botting, from supers going slower on down to VNIs needing more active attention, will assist in limiting the damage theyâre doing to the economyâand will, in part, remove a chunk of the PLEX demand, which reduces the price supports for PLEX.
The reduction in resource production will force a reconsideration of how much risk v reward people are willing to make. And yes, this means that in areas where people feel less secure, they may well decide that Rorquals are not the best investment as their main mining shipâthey may shift to âRorq + Miner IIs boosting for a fleet of Hulksâ purely because itâs less ISK on the line. If they do, thatâs ok. Thatâs a reasonable decision for them to make[1].
And you know, yeah, some of them will move away from Rorqs. Which means less demand on excavators, which, letâs face it, are about a carrier/dread/fax hull in price. So every rorq that isnât being used (or is shifting to Miner IIs) is a reduction in demand of 4-5 capital hullsâ value.
The cascading effects in the bigger picture just keep this going. The reduction in value demand is offset by the reduction in raw materials for new capitals, but capitals become less disposable and easier to killâŚ
All of which points to less capital demand, so less capital proliferation, which leads to a healthier game, overall.
That shouldnât be taken to mean that I donât think they should use Rorqs. They absolutely should if they feel the reward is worth the risk. But itâs a decision theyâll have to make. Itâs a decision our guys will have to make, too. I happen to think the standing fleet should be up to the task of protecting rorqs, but our guys will have to decide on their own how to proceed.
VNI
There is a reason that every inch of not high sec space is absolutely covered with VNIs. You can use that â â â â on everything. FW plexes, low sec level 4s (and Vs), FW missions (to the tune of a billion worth of LP in a couple hours) combat sites, general null ratting and all of the rest.
The change to the VNI doesnât really affect me at all ratting. I was already using an armor fit with a drone nav computer on it. My sig will still be tiny and if it even starts to become an issue guess what the cheapest pirate implant set is?
You know who canât use it? Alphas. They wonât be able to train the fitting skills to make that fit function. This will stall (temporarily at least) legions of bot.
Gila, The drone changes hurt for higher end, but the Gila will still be fine in T3s and down Assuredly that a T5 Gila pilot is a couple of books out either Munnin or SacâŚeither is perfectly capable of running T5
3)Carriers
Carrier ratting isnât that bad, you may have to change out of all Niddy all of the time, learn to pulse the NSA and watch intel or just forgo the NSA and use a thanny that can still get the same or better ticks. If you were running ascendany/hyperspacial set upsâŚwelp yeah that is going to sting.
Supers
Sucks for them, but supers locking faster than BSs is crap, and always has been now they get to choose and you have a much better chance as a small gang to escape
Rorques
grumpcatsaysgood.jpg
Seriously, CCP was warned that no one was going to fly anything else when they put them on grid. Lo and Behold, that is exactly what happened.
Fun fact before all of these, people could rat to the toon of 60-75mil an hour, they used battleships to do it. Most of which are either untouched or significantly improved since then.
What is changing is that the 70mil brainless shield VNI is going away, you are going to have to dedicate some assets to keep up those income levels.