Whether right or wrong its divided a community that didn’t need dividing and for that I’m pretty disappointed.
I can see both sides of the balance coin on this change but you underestimate how many salty and sour vets that feel this was a balance change at their expense. Are you sure you communicated the update properly in hindsight? Is “balance” really the right word here?
CSM has done a generally terrible job of stoking the fire and generally trolling people who have valid, albeit dissenting views. Seriously CSM look at your message history lately and ask yourselves some honest questions.
Sometimes changes are needed in the game but CCP has developed a pattern whereby the enjoyment of the game has to be taken away from some group as a sacrifice to the balance gods. Look at the way the game has gone in the last few years. A slot less here, a slight decrease there, jump fatigue, endless vni nerfs over the years, carrier bait and switch, now rorq bait and switch. You can’t just keep nerfing things call it content and expect it to cause retention.
As a long time member of this community I’m pretty concerned about the divisive nature of this patch and the general approach CCP has been taking. I feel those that say they represent the community could do a better job at uniting instead of dividing. In general its not fun to have the ships you fly nerfed and that’s not hard to figure out. The question is can we do better in the future or is this the new norm? Is CCP trying to age out an older audience in favor of some.
Regardless of how well you plan your announcements there is a community within the community who has a self imposed job of keeping their respective communities stitched together. I think that we could get a lot more support from the greater community around us than we’ve been getting as of late.
the difference is that generally fire is not applied across the whole stack. In PvE, it’s usually concentrated on a single drone, and in PvP, it will be a smaller subset: either 1 in solo PvP, or each pilot deciding on their own which drone to fire on based on range and how dead it is as they acquire lock.
Drones aren’t killed stack-by-stack, but one-by-one. Even against 5 drones, 2 or 3 remain largely untouched until the first one dies and the people targeting it shift to another.
And trolling by the CSM members to do to the thread what they suggested to CCP for the patch…I believe I see a pattern here for the HTFU members of the community. Yeah Brisk Rubal I know your type
Look at your posts mostly trolly under the bridge stuff. Like asking stupid questions better left for a in game message o convo, slow your roll and actually work for the community in a positive manner rather than a negative one perhaps.
Maybe you can get CCP to give everyone free caps to fly, that sounds like a better balance pass than what landed in our laps.
I’m talking to people, not trolling. I am working for the community by engaging and discussing with folks. You don’t like these changes, that’s fine. They’re in the best interests of the game.
Stop focusing on your own personal desires and take a look at the bigger picture.
In one breath you tell us that our reactions are emoting because we dont know how much these changes will even impact the game (I’ll hazard a guess that they won’t please the redditors nearly enough, prepare for further nerf batting) and in the next breath you tell us that it’s all in the best interests of the game, even though it might have no impact in fixing the issues.
You keep telling us these things but haven’t put forward anything to convince most people that this will infact improve the game for THEM. They don’t pay their subs to keep the pvpers happy and they won’t like seeing how badly that CCP has managed things lately. You can call that greedy if you like but a game has to keep people invested. Most of the displeased players don’t even use the forums or reddit, (I don’t blame them for avoiding that culture) and they’ll just feed back with their subscriptions. We’re not buying what you are selling.
After rereading your posts in this thread I don’t think that you were a good replacement for Xenuria at all
It is not really trolling, you only keep telling people that what they say makes no sense, that they are wrong about pretty much everything etc. This is not a constructive way of working with community. In fact, showing complete insensitiveness and lack of interest, even indifference, is very destructive.
Some people are emoting - the ones who are claiming that Rorqs are worthless, Supers are worthless, etc. That’s simply not true, and the facts on paper are clear. But there will be a change, yes.
That change, in the aggregate, will be good for the game, but the change for the average player is unlikely to be massive. It’s the difference between taxing one guy 1 million dollars, or taxing one million guys 1 dollar - you spread the pain around and it has less of an impact while still accomplishing your goals.
Keeping the in-game economy from spiraling out of control will improve the game for everybody. That’s the point. This is all about reducing the chances of isk inflation (plex is a different story, and a different issue), reducing super cap proliferation (which folks have been demanding) and need to be taken as a whole with the other changes. The goal is to get more stuff blowing up, coupled with reducing the amount of isk entering the economy from ratting, and the mineral wealth from Rorqs.
All of that together should be healthy.
Most players accept that and understand it, even if they don’t like it. The folks who only care about their own bottom line, or who are jumping on this issue even though they’ve already changed their behavior (that’s you), are the ones here still complaining.
Do you disagree that the signature nerf to the vni is useless? Shield vnis clock in 100 points higher than armor already and they don’t get hit anymore or less. Ten points will make no difference. How about that the drone speed nerf will negatively affect pvp a lot more than pve? The abaddon buff to damage was what that ship needed? More than capacitor to run the giant lasers in the first place? The cni needed drones more than fitting room? Subcap reps and cap transfer should be affected by dr (at all) like faxes?
Regarding you being a troll… Excluding context and ignoring facts in your replies is your method of choice.
Here, you forgot this important context regarding the sig radius of the vni. That is a fact you can neither agree or disagree with, however it should provide a clue as to why a sig increase of 10 is beyond meaningless.
Regarding the abaddon… Cap has always been it’s bottleneck. It’s kryptonite if you will. When they finally “balance” the ship they ignore that fact? A cap that could run the lasers for a meaningful length of time without sacrificing slots for cap modules would have put more asses in the abaddon than what they came up with.
Fitting, how is this not obvious??? Everyone knows it needs more fitting. It could’ve been accomplished by either increasing the fitting directly OR by removing a launcher and buffing the dmg bonus. either way the fit on a cni is why it sucks, not it’s lack of drones. (Which i contend it should maintain btw) Disagree? Go and fit one.
Ok, but saying this doesn’t acknowledge the fact that sub logi/support isn’t broken and therefore doesn’t need to be “fixed”. Frig logi is anemic anyway, I promise any nerf will be felt. Honestly if i drop enough logi on something that it can’t be killed you should be killing the logi. Ewar/jams, well jams before they “balanced” them, is the answer to an overwhelming presence of logi. Seems like common sense to me.
You need to learn how to read. I agreed with you that the sig radius boost wasn’t going to do much.
Again, I agree with you.
Again, I agreed with you. The drones weren’t enough.
It wasn’t fixed. There was no easy way for them to implement diminishing returns on FAXes without implementing diminishing returns on all logi. The point is that it won’t matter for subcaps because the chances of you get 100+ logi repping the same target in a subcap fight for sufficient reps for diminishing returns to appear is non-existent. The diminishing returns are specifically calculated based on FAX reps. The change won’t be felt by subcaps.
I answered every single one of your questions, including the sarcastic ones. I don’t think all of these changes are great or very helpful. I’m not sure why you’re assuming because I support some of the stuff in here that I support all of it or think all of it is going to be massively impactful. Some of the changes won’t be.
On this point, Brisc, I’m gonna say again that we need to see the math in play. Because the graphs we’ve been shown aren’t ‘# of logi’, but ‘# of reps’. And 100 reps is 25 logi. And yeah, we have that repping the same target fairly often. We need the math behind the charts.
I’m of the opinion that we need to have the formula in-hand before it hits Sisi. We need to be able to test it and make sure the math is working the way it’s supposed to be working. That ‘Fax reps + small reps’ graph worries me, a lot, because it doesn’t look like it says what Rise says it does, and those numbers upthread demonstrate that.
I’ve been waiting and thinking about changes for Supers and Titans for a long time and im happy to see that ccp is willing to make significant changes to mechanics but i think some of the changes don’t go far enough.
I hope the intention behind the super and titan changes was to bring subcaps back into the fights even though these changes won’t achieve that probably. What i think the actual problem is: the application and independence of Supers and Titans when fighting sub capital ships and not the damage itself. As long as HAW Titans keep applying to cruiser sized hulls with any significant damage and without any subcap assistence it will not have the desired effect but quite the contrary. HAW Titan tracking and HAW gun optimal should be nerfed to a level where they might just get lucky hits on battlecruiser hulls without assitence or HAW guns should be removed entirely from Titan hulls, HAW Dreads are not great either but atleast its possible to kill them. Supercarriers should also not have the ability to tackle at all. Sirens and Dromis should be changed to other ewar effects such as paint and sensor damps. This change would force players to counter subcap fleets with subcaps of their own or at the very least as assitence for tackle and application for their capitals. The Super and Titan damage application/independence is also one reason why Rorquals are perceived as too strong and to me it looks like that this problem wasn’t fully understood here. At the moment it is mostly very big groups using rorquals and smaller groups are being pushed towards mega coalitions to provide safety for their own members rorquals. With the change to tank, yield and excavators it will just push smaller groups further into coalitions - leading to nullsec stagnation and loss of content for everyone. With the current iteration of changes it will be too risky for players to use rorquals outside supercapital range which means less rorquals in space, less potential targets, less fleets hunting for them and therfor less fleets in general and a total loss of content. A simple change to max capacitor (50%) would give enough room for counterplay for players that bring the right ships for the job. One thing i wondered about: Did you guys consider making it the amount of repp modules instead of repp amount to give diminishing returns? If the best repp module applies 100% the second best 90% the thrid one 80% (or whatever numbers would look like) it would give an incentive to fit a fax with more expensive repps so you can get the maximum out of your fax numbers. Leading not only to more of an isk loss/risk but also incentive for oponents to actually go and kill said faxes. I think the insurance change is nice but doesn’t go far enough.
