As sad as it may seem, for many posting here it’s their life.
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Well, look who came out of hiding. Are you ready for round two?
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It’s fine.
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Good, I was hoping that was not the case.
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That’s some irony coming from the person defending the need to have menial farming tasks in EVE and opposing changes to make them interesting.
May I ask you what are your actual suggestions? What kind of PVE would you consider not menial? You mentioned decision making, skills, reflexes, all that stuff. Something not farmable. Could you elaborate? An example of such an activity?
If you’re going to point to Trigs, I should say I liked Trigs Abyssal deadspace in the beginning, but then it hit me, all you do is rat. Spawns and weather effects change, but it’s still the same ratting. If you fit right, if you came prepared it’s even more mind-numbing than missions or DED sites. Cause in order to get decent reward you have to farm it harder than previous PVE. Also kill all, pick up materials, BPCs, modules, skillbooks from single can in the end - is stupid lazy.
Same story with emergent conduits. Same story with first two invasion chapters, except you couldn’t do it solo. They were lazy game mechanics to seed officer modules and Dread BPC. Those fleets had fun though, but they’re 0.001% of all players.
This third part is no better, the consequences are more meaningful, but the task is still menial in your terms.
What isn’t?
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Short form: make it more like PvP. Instead of hordes of low-quality ships you face a small number of ships equivalent to your own. And the important change that needs to be made, compared to previous attempts at the concept, is that the NPCs are constantly adapting and bringing surprises. Suddenly an NPC ewar ship decloaks and cripples your ship, or the target opens a cyno and drops a fleet on you, or a rival NPC faction enters the fight and you’re caught in the middle, etc. You can’t just read the how-to guide and have guaranteed success as long as you follow it correctly, and there are many situations where victory is impossible and your only option is to attempt to escape with your ship intact.
Not that I expect any of this to happen, of course. I have no faith in CCP’s competence or interest in creating something like this. So IMO the next best thing is addition by subtraction: simply delete all combat PvE entirely. No more missions, no more anomalies, no more triglavian invasions. The game is now industry and combat PvP without this weird parallel side game that has nothing to do with the rest of it.
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So you want it to be like arenas? Because 99% of real PVP is blob on blob, blob on noobs, and blob on haulers. PVE is exactly like PVP as it stands now by your own definition.
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They tried it with FOBs and diamond rats. Trigs are the next iteration. But they’re still pretty dumb.
I don’t think it’ll work though. If it’s too hard and unpredictable 0.001% is going to engage, like FOBs. You’ll have to cram exorbitant reward, but then you ruin the rest of PVE. If it’s balanced, just right, then you bring an alt and farm it still.
I too dreamt of PVE with smart enemy, not hordes and swarms of dumb npcs, but something challenging. But I simply don’t see it work in reality. In any MMO btw.
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How are you different from your imaginary PVE-whiners who demand PVP deleted. You whine and demand delete PVE. How is it different. It’s silly.
Half of your PVP crowd doesn’t want to fight other PVPers, they want easy prey. They wont fight predators, they’ll play something else.
You are asking CCP close the game. Some game design.
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This is the sad truth. Most PvE players don’t want challenges, they want menial tasks they can AFK while passively watching their wallet number go up. Fortunately these players add nothing to the game and so they won’t be missed if they mass ragequit when all PvE is replaced by the new concept.
But I simply don’t see it work in reality. In any MMO btw.
This is why I think the best thing to do is for CCP to acknowledge that combat PvE does not belong in EVE. It’s a relic of the early days when CCP included a bunch of genre conventions (questing, attributes, etc) because that’s what everyone else was doing, not because they were really appropriate for what EVE is trying to do. It’s time to let those ideas go and move on with EVE as its own thing.
Because PvP is the core of EVE and without it the game would be dead, while PvE is a relic of the days when CCP mass copied a bunch of stuff from WoW regardless of how appropriate it is.
Half of your PVP crowd doesn’t want to fight other PVPers, they want easy prey. They wont fight predators, they’ll play something else.
Most PvE players do their absolute best to avoid PvP: farming missions in highsec with virtual immunity to attack, botting in nullsec and docking up any time a non-blue name is in local (and whining on the forums if cloaking allows that name to stay for more than a few minutes), etc. These people really aren’t being prey all that much.
And the predator vs. prey dynamic would remain intact because industry is still there. Mining barges and haulers would still be prey that needs to be defended.
Since you claim to be an expert game designer you must be familiar with prof Richard Bartle. Bartle’s taxonomy of player types - killers, explorers, achievers, socializers. He claims it applies to any MMO, since the earlies MUDs. There must be a certain proportion of player types for the game to stay alive. If you only cater to killers your other types leave.
Avoiding PVP is PVP. Farming missions is a competitive form of PVP - they need to turn LP to ISK - that’s market PVP.
I think you said it yourself that everything in EVE is PVP. You want to keep miners and hauler, who do you want deleted then?
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But I’m not only catering to killers. Industry would still be there and there would be plenty of things for builders to do. The only loss would be combat PvE players, the group that has the least interaction with the rest of the game and the least reason to exist.
Avoiding PVP is PVP. Farming missions is a competitive form of PVP - they need to turn LP to ISK - that’s market PVP.
It’s only PvP in the very broadest definition of the term. Clicking “dock” every time a non-blue name appears in local is such a minimal level of interaction that it doesn’t deserve to be counted. And turning LP to ISK is only a meaningful form of market PvP if the player actively attempts to exploit the market and doesn’t just passively accept whatever the current market rate is for their LP.
You want to keep miners and hauler, who do you want deleted then?
I already told you: combat PvE is removed, and that’s it.
You don’t like faction ships, implants, mods and ammo? DED mods? You cant build those, you know? Not meaningful enough?
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I don’t think you have a position in all of this, you didn’t think it through. You came to troll - haha, whiners, salt, tears, etc. And now you just rationalizing your own greedy PVE dream of unfair competition. You couldn’t compete fairly, and now when your competitors threaten to leave you came here patting yourself on the back, how it’s your ambition and not their leaving going to make you prosper.
Pretty pathetic, tbh.
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It all depends on the perspective and scale you’re applying.
For someone like Foggy, who posts ■■■■■■■■ and lies pretty much every single day,
for years, it definitely is meaningful.
In general it’s valid to say that nothing at all has any meaning whatsoever …
… including your own existence …
… yet I’m pretty sure you put a lot of meaning into some things anyway.
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You and Roan should start a little club.
The “We Hate Foggy Cuz He Owned Us” club.
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Sometimes I really wish I understood your humour better.
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FTFY 
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That’s why you take a break and watch what happens to the markets. You may miss the early returns, but you’ll set yourself up for more long term, stable returns later.
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