I’m sorry to say this and I’ll try to put this as tactfully as possible, but in this squabble (even though I don’t know much about you two personally) DrysonBennington sounds like the veteran scientist in several of the posts, not Altara Zemara who claims to be one.
For one, there are many claims from both sides and virtually no citations(expecting full and proper citations would be even more of a pipe dream, I guess).
Secondly, let’s assume that I don’t know about how are tattoos done, yet I see on people while they’re passing by while walking in crowded streets and I can’t ask them because of the flow of the crowd, the logical step would be to go to a tattoo shop and inquire about it where there are people who specialize on it or those who can direct to the city/country where specific tattoos are done and where all the enthusiasts are.
In this case, that place would be the SETI, or several trance channeling communities where UFO’s are tracked and researched. There are many UFO abductees/witnesses and media in many forms on them as well.
I’ll say this again: Science’s basis is being objective(that means NOT going fanatical about the past foundings or the lack of findings of science, that is not inserting dogmatic beliefs) AND curiosity, not fanatical closed mindedness and apathy.
Also that head of Israeli aerospace that I linked earlier.
and the medieval cities residents I linked earlier.
Also that Canadian Minister of Transport.
Let’s assume all those well-educated and accomplished people that “have seen things”…then why do we elect them if we can’t trust them enough to investigate and leave an open door?
LOL !! The ‘veteran scientist’ who makes statements akin to ’ you can’t prove unicorns don’t exist’…which no genuine scientist would make as they’d know that the burden of proof in science is always on the person making the claim for existence of a phenomenon. That is extremely basic science that your ‘veteran scientist’ doesn’t even grasp. What a hoot !
And unlike Mr Bennington…I actually have educational qualifications ( especially in Astronomy ) and an employment history in science. I spent 40 years with a job title with the word ‘scientist’ in it.
We need to get some real scientists in this discussion. Preferably some indentured servant working on a less than minimum wage stipend in the hopes of someday getting a small lab of their own so they can hire their own indentured servants. Bonus points if they are on a student visa so they cannot complain about anything they are doing. Then we can find out if they or their bosses are working from a place of genuine objective curiosity, as Lordysseus says, or whether they just want to prove whatever they got funding for, be it:
Unicorns may or may not exist, but either way they support string theory.
Tattoos interfere with the mosquito life cycle.
Space aliens are caused by high cholesterol, so talk to your doctor about getting on statins.
There already was one in the OP. He’s an astrophysicist. But it seems Joe Bloggs on the Eve forums knows better after reading the ‘science’ column of The National Enquirer.
All you’re doing is throwing shade Altara and nothing more.
All you have driveled about is the scientific process and semantics to create an argument that you and the rest of your verbatim science heads can’t prove.
You also sound just like Azbrozubrudder from Trek BBS who constantly stated he was a psychologist and diagnosed those not adhering to what has already been published by someone popular as being non-scientific.
Telling someone that they have Dunning Kruger does in fact fall under these forum violations:
Ranting
Personal Attacks
Harassment
Racism & Discrimination
Rumor Mongering
Unlike you Altara, I am qualified to make a mental determination about your because I have actually taken psychology courses. No, ‘real’ scientist would ever come to Eve Online and try and dissuade sci-fan fans from beliefs and discussions like you are trying to do because sci-fi is the base of 99.9% of space exploration professional’s background.
99.9% of NASA workers have some fascination of discovering the unknown, go tell NASA they are aren’t using the scientific method properly to find alien life in the Universe.
Based on your scientific method of ‘proving’ something as being factual, you must provide your credentials so that the forum can determine if you’re ‘40 years’ of astronomy is factual or a lie.
You set yourself up Altara. Now provide where you work so that your background can be authenticated.
Because if you don’t, then you are definitely the same trolls from Trek BBS who spout the same thing when prosed with a question that isn’t any science book.
“Being right” and “be convincing” are different things. Actual scientists don’t fare too well when dealing with people whose job is to convince people. And why should they? Science is not about convincing people of stuff.
And Dryson has made quite some absurd claims, like Earth being 46 bilion light years from the center of the universe. Nope. We are in the middle of a visible bubble whose radius is the age of the universe in light years. For anything farther than that, its light still hasn’t reached us and thus we literally can’t know the actual size of the universe, or whether it makes sense to talk about a center of the universe, nor what is our position regarding whatever coordinates we could figure based on that reference point.
Because he doesn’t really have a clue what he’s talking about. He just blusters his way through, hoping that a load of word salad will convince others equally as ignorant of proper science. It’s all quite comical, really. Of course, the one thing such people can never cope with is people who do actually know their stuff.
Blah…blah…blah. No, it’s not ‘my’ method of scientifically proving things. If you actually knew anything about science you would know it is the method…otherwise known as ‘the scientific method’. It is a system of enquiry in which the burden of proof is always on those making claims for the existence of any phenomenon to prove its existence. Nobody has to ‘prove’ the non-existence of ghosts, leprechauns, fairies, or even aliens. Their non-existence is the scientific default.
Thus anyone who demands aliens exist needs to provide firm empirical evidence. Science could not care less what anyone ‘believes’.
That is how science works…and I could not care less whether you like it or not. I’ll take the proper science in learned journals over and above the views of some self-inflated ‘Joe Bloggs on the internet’ any day.
We’re going around in circles here. I’m neither Mr. Bennington’s, nor the lawyer of the guy who talks(correction: writes) like the 45th. I initially wrote a lengthy reply that addressed some of the issues of the thread and explaining, but then I gave up and hit ctrl+a and backspace and writing this post instead.
Read the quote below in the 45th’s voice:
But I can bet 5 ISK that Altara is not an illustrious, 40 year scientist. If he actually, truly is…then woe is upon us for the quality of what science and scientists have become.
But it was…until Mr Bennington started trying to show off how little he understands science. The only uncivility has been him totally ignoring anyone who pointed out how science actually works. Alas, forums are full of people who refuse to be corrected about anything, and who take it as a personal affront if they are rightly told that they are wrong.
And in any case…why would someone such as yourself, happy to quote ’ trance channeling communities where UFO’s are tracked and researched ’ …seriously ?..‘channeling’ ?..care two hoots what science has become…lol.
Abandons the thread before I get crushed by the weight of tinfoil hats.
The thing with alien life is easily understandable with this simile: let’s say you know one point in a plane too large to know where it ends. The question you must answer is, “how long is the line starting with this point”?
But you only know one single point and don’t even know how large is the plane. If you knew a second point, that would be a line, and you would know the line is short enough for you to measure it. You could try to speculate it being a straight line and have a clue in where to look for a third point (or what direction at least). Then it could be straight line or a curve, and things would get more and more complicated…
But we only know a point:
There is life on Earth.
And nothing will change that until we find a second point.
People speculate about the existence of another point. Abou how far away it might be. About how difficult it might be to start a point in general. About how large is the plane, and many other intriguing questions.
But. We. Only. KNOW. One. Point.
Whatever anyone claims or explains or hopes or thinks, those are just opinions and not facts.
It took a long and hard road to figure a way to get facts as straight as we falible humans can. And we’ve created great wonders and great blunders and great horrors with that “way to get facts as straight as we falible humans can”.
And that way tells us that we know one single point of life in the universe…
…and also know quite some points about how people get things wrong and talks of opinions as facts.
What you’re trying to say is that the Universe is only as far as your eyes can see. The age of the Universe is 13.7 billion years old. That is not the distance from one side to the other.
Mar 3, 2022 — Today, the observable Universe spans about 96 billion lightyears across. This is bigger than the 27.4 billion lightyears naively expected from
Like I said earlier in this thread: the Greys are telepathetic. That’s all I know for sure about extraterrestrial life. I also don’t care if y’all don’t believe me. Y’all likely wouldn’t believe my explanation for how I got to this belief to begin with.
