Yes, but again: that is not possible with a binary proposition. Mutually-exclusive things don’t work that way. And yes, the positions taken among the Clades were pretty clearly ‘bring them in’, ‘ignore them’, and ‘kill them’. The Overminds and their minions pretty clearly represent the position of ‘how do we subject this idea to Cladistic proving? Well, clearly some of us would have to bring them in.’ Can’t test the viability of bringing them in without, you know, bringing them in.
Also, still digging through ARC posts, it’s a long day of meetings, unfortunately, so there’s things consuming my attention. But I haven’t forgotten.
The author certainly is… but yes, I think even she meant that as wit, not real scholarship.
Never was “Must die”, the Collective has never made any statement against the 4 empires.
Well, sure, naturally binary propositions don’t have much room for synthesis, but the discourse element regarding drones was never “Should we kill them”, it was “How do we treat them?”
Perun was undecided, which is what caused the temporary consent-lock, don’t think ignoring is much of an option given as their first contact with the drones was them attacking Belobog infrastructure.
Sure, but you can perform preliminary screening for characteristics that exclude them from entering sobornost, like hivelinking. It also seems that the occurrence of emergent sentience from the drones was also a point in favor of collaboration with them, probably so that they may contribute in proving properly, bringing fresh perspectives and ideas into the Collective.
Well that’s just plain reductive, besides, the way they treat them is neither “as hostile” nor “not as hostile”, instead they made the distinction between drones that could be collaborated with and drones that could not.
Just conjencture on my part, its noted in their DAV datastreams that their autonomy was a desirable trait, and participation in proving would be reasonably in line with their culture. Why else would autonomy be sought out if not for that?
Uhmm… duh? I mean, saying it boiled down should be a tip-off that it’s reductive.
That’s definitely part of the test case they’ve chosen as part of the proving, yes. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the final resolution. But that comes back to the limited window we have of data on how they do this sort of thing.
Because the degree of autonomy the drones have might be an indicator of how best to proceed with their test case and evaluation. But that, too, is conjecture.
I didn’t state that the inconsistency of their actions is why you find them inhuman, i’m just saying that stating it like it like the Clades mix together commonly is just plain wrong. The exact motivations for why you would state it are largely immaterial.
Remilia pretty much beat me to the punch of what I was going to say about control before I got around to it.
Regarding governance: Yeah sure, I mean you can make an argument that representative governments do not truly find the consent of every member of it’s citizenship and that their leadership can often be out of touch. The Gallente Federation has been wrestling with that concept pretty much since it began, but if you want to argue that representative government in and of itself is unilateral then the word is meaningless in context because every Empire in New Eden would have a unilateral government, hell there would not be an organization in the entire history of mankind that was not unilateral because even if everyone votes on something they suffer from tyranny by majority.
Ah, yeah dehumanization isn’t the word to use when discussing whether or not the Triglavians are literally aliens or some non-human entity. No, what I meant by dehumanizing is in the typical application of the word, in the same way way that a Gallente might dehumanize a Caldari or vice versa. I didn’t mean as in an actual reason why they were aliens, but rather that you just came off as racist and/or myopic.
As though the Triglavians cannot be trusted to take care of their borders and therefore that they, as a group of people, simply do not have the same merit as any of the empires. The actual minutia of whether or not they were nonhumans was irrelevant to me, and frankly I have thought that caring about whether or not they were ‘not human’ in and of itself is a complete nonissue. What they do and how they behave is more important then whether we’re the same species.
Really? I came off as racist when I said that the actual chance of encountering one Clade in another’s territory might well be no greater than that of the empires’ incursions into one another’s territory, but the fact that those encounters will happen over a far smaller sample area means the statistical noise will inevitably be magnified to appear larger?
So saying that the actual chances might be no different, but the lack of a few thousand other systems to smooth out the curve means it carries a greater appearance of inconsistency… is racist? Really?
Look, right now you have two options: either you’re lying to try to twist things around to give you some kind of advantage you clearly aren’t actually enjoying right now, or you’re an idiot for completely misunderstanding a very simple effect of signal-to-noise ratios.
Well i’m not lying that’s for sure, the intent was that you come off as Xenophobic. Which, I suppose, is literal Xenophobia since you seem to internalize Triglavians as being some kind of alien race. Though from that explanation it appears to be the latter, because I thought you were arguing they were actually inconsistent. If you’re just saying they look that way, based on personal experiences I still disagree, but at least you’re not actively trying to misrepresent things as something they are not.
Incompetent management, clear bias in how the defenses were organized, actively hindering the defense of systems in some cases, and more or less is just resorting to throwing suicide waves into Pochven. The organization continues to exist in the nominal sense of it still being…there…but I wouldn’t expect it to persist in any meaningful capacity, or for Capsuleers to be particularly enticed by it’s cause going forward.
Edencoms issues are terminal at this point, and they aren’t going to be solved by hurling more isk at them. More then likely future threats to the Triglavians will come from the individual empires, but the united front is done, if anything it’s actively a harming itself and anyone who stood behind it’s banner.
I will say that, at the very least, Edencom is very different on the ground versus how they fight in the skies. I still don’t consider them a massive threat compared to the Empires, but the effort pushed towards aiding resistance movements against the Triglavians and uniting communications is admirable, there’s something to be said for their fighting spirit even if we’re on the opposite side of the battlefield.
I just don’t think it’ll be enough, and I don’t think it’s anything anyone else couldn’t do as well if not better.
