Something that bugged me about "kybernaut philosophy"

So there’s something that has been bugging me about the Triglavians, their actions, and the actions and statements of the self professed “kybernauts”.

Something seemed awfully familiar about it, particularly after reading the recent Scope News articles, about how “coercion not violence” was the Triglavian stance to their plan to alter the civilians they have captured.

“Run and you shall be crushed.
Stand and you shall fall.
Kneel and you shall be saved”

This seems to accurately summarise the Triglavian and Kybernaut stances, I’m not sure if any of the kybernuts have used those exact words, but their clinging to any claims of non genocidal behaviour by Triglav forces, definitely fits the pattern.

Now see the thing is, is that those words are somewhat familiar, and it was just this morning as I was reading the latest issue of “Early Amarr Space Archaeology” when it suddenly clicked and I realised why that attitude seemed familiar to me.

It’s a near 1800 year old quote from Emperor Arrach Sarum, from about the time of the discovery of the Ealur race, and the great revival of the Reclaiming as an idea.


:red_circle: Sponsored by Triglavians.

It is interesting, isn’t it? Trigs claim that they are coming from a combat nature, from a world full of fighting and war to show you are the fittest, best, most resilient. But whenever someone fights them, these fighters are not met with a fair fight, they are met with overwhelming violence and brutality to crush these who dare to oppose the absolute rule of Triglavians.


There are several distinct elements that may appear similar, and may even fit within the right arrangment, but perhaps would be best analyzed separately.

Martial mindset, Religion and Violence (Symbolic or Physical).

I can (and have) spar with a friend or colleague (Master Zhao for example) to the point where the bodies of the participants are injured, and still be a playful communion with no violence involved, nor a religion out of it.

Observations on martial arts

As a monk trained in so called martial arts (and coming from a group under/within the power of a Megacorp), a martial mindset kinda came with the package. (The concept of art differ of course, there is a linguistic path that ar" comes from “ars”, with equivalent in “tékne” or technique, so one can look either at the aesthetic of the final product or the process of doing something well that results in something pleasant, so you can have art in both the hability to crunch a windpipe with your hand and/or those shows some monasteries do for visitors and are paid handsomely for it, but i digress)

Religion (Re-Ligare to reconnect [to what was lost]) comes with both symbolic and physical expressions, and is usually related to a Martial mindset to further the values reach. (Reclaiming for example, in both the peaceful preaching and the violent subjugation and slavery).

Observations on religion

The violent part is not a requirement, but tends to help institutions achieve their goals of perpetuating themselves. (Now it is more about the mundane aspects of the symbols rather than the symbols itself, a debate that happens whenever an objective takes the form of an institution and the institution in a self preservation mode starts to ignore the objectives that created it, specially if they are about ot be achieved).

Violence is a tricky subject. The wide variety of moral codes throughout the cluster makes the topic of violence one of the most challenging and sensitive to address, but a (somewhat) common stance in interplanetary forums, would be:

The intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, that either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm,maldevelopment or deprivation.

I must admit i was not expecting to the posibility of classification of the (apparent) Triglavian actions regarding the civilian population something outside the scope of violence. (One learns something new everyday).

However, on a military campaign, the use of violence is the de facto tool to achieve one goal. (I want something that you have/ i want to deny you from having something, you will give it to me / you will not have it, and to do this i will do several things to achieve my goal, to your mind, to your body or to your values).

The Triglavians (and the Drifters by the way) deal with extreme prejudice against percieved hostilities and combatants. (Orbital strikes [Hello Gallente x Caldari Prime], ground troops summary execution [Hello Flosewin] and such). They do not refrain from violence against threats (at least in their vision).

And now the tricky part. How much of a martial mindset is in bed with violence? If they were mindless brutes that dealt with warmonging for every issue, there would be hardly any Triglavian civilization or functioning groups available to come to New Eden. Are our verbal harassment on public forums (Hello Legislators, Press and IGS) less violent than solving issues with ones fists? Personally, i find symbolic violence as violent (sometimes more) than a physical one.

So, @Valerie_Valate, while the reference you brought up can be used to look at similarities between our people and them, there are several others, from different events from different factions, that could also be cited and make sense regarding the Triglavians.

One does not need religion to want others to bend their knees and facilitate ones goals.

PS - The Triglavian fan club is another matter entirely.


I greatly enjoy the irony of the defenders of the Empires pointing to the evils of the Triglavians with evidence of… the culture of the Empires.

Genocide and slavery are just fine if they are done for a maniacal god, apparently. Treating combatants as combatants, however, is evil. Fighting for independence is good, if it was done by the Minmatar in the past - just as submitting to the Amarr is good now. Believing in a fiercely democratic society is bad and tantamount to slavery, as opposed to actual slavery, which is good.

The mental gymnastics are impressive, and the goalposts move with the speed of Caldari borders. And it never ends. The Minmatar capsuleers voice meek protest towards the Amarr, and say that if they are not respected more they will no longer sacrifice… as if continued use of brutal slavery was of a lesser than slightly impolite disrespect. As if being considered animals without valid culture, born into sin, was not that big of a deal - but a single mild insult would be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Except it doesn’t, does it? Because the Minmatar continue to fight for the Amarr with a ferocity even the Amarrians can’t match.

We know enough of Triglavian culture to know they are infinitely preferable to the Empires. Are they perfect? Of course not, but when the status quo is so monstrous… any improvement is a major one. And just a few days ago I heard more arguments from Edencom-aligned capsuleers protesting the fighting against Drifters, and blaming capsuleers for shooting at Drifters first. To some of you, at least, a machine intelligence bent on physically violating bodies and wiping minds, to turn them into war machines, is preferable to the Triglavians. Question that instead.

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Thank you for a good laugh.

Circadian Seekers showed up and when shot upon, did not retaliate.

The design of this Sleeper drone is unlike anything that has been seen to date. The drone explores with a mechanical indifference to the monotony of its task, executing each new maneuver with a flawless, unthinking precision.

After getting blown up by the thousands, they adapted to the reality of New Eden.

YULAI – The Directive Enforcement Department has recently completed initial investigations into the Sleeper drones designated as “Circadian Seekers” and concluded that they are in the process of adapting to perceived threats. We believe this process is well advanced and are issuing an emergency advisory under the provisions of the Yulai Convention.

We especially urge capsuleers not to become alarmed by changes in the behavior of these drones. We recommend that all pilots exercise caution when approaching Circadian Seekers and are sufficiently prepared for retaliation.

Please report any unusual activity to the lawful authorities or your local DED liaison office.

Then came the Autothysian Lancers

The Autothysian Lancer is a Drifter-allied drone with a similar base design to the Circadian Seekers but is much more dangerous, sporting an upgraded array of defenses and weapons. Though highly militarized in response to capsuleer resistance, the drone still explores New Eden with the mechanical indifference seen in previous, weaker variants.

And then came the Drifters after the Autothysian Lancers.

Correlation does not equate to causation, but #Capsuleershotfirst .


Frankly, I can’t understand how being enslaved within your own mind1 is preferable to a form of slavery you can actively fight against.

1. I mean, having 2 other intelligences in your head, and you can only do what you want if Mommy or Daddy agree? Hard pass, thanks.

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If you were one of my students submitting an essay, I’d highlight this in red and comment “Evidence Required”.

But you’re not, so I’m just going to say “Really”, in a very condescending and patronising fashion.


There would literally be no reason for us to spell out why trig culture is more preferable. You can read their history. Btw the Trigs don’t rape and genocide people like the Gallente and Amarr for example. So that automatically makes them preferable.

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Like so many other capsuleers, I initially viewed the Triglavians as liberators that would release us from the stifling requirements of empire - especially those of us who view ourselves as independent and not willing to unite into an empire of our own. As these invasions have ground on-and-on, with very little to show for themselves, I have come to realize that the Triglavians are not unlike the Drifter menace that they claim to detest.

There is no Triglavian philosophy - they host flippant tournaments in their abyssal space. They name these “proving grounds” - but it is clear that they are merely circuses. Nothing is risked and nothing is gained - these are not demonstrations of martial prowess, they are sporting events.

In the systems that the Triglavians have taken, they have done very little except occupy the existing stations and erect defensive batteries to secure their position. As was mentioned above, these Triglavians prefer to use overwhelming force and numbers to minimize risks to themselves.

They are violent barbarians with exotic technology that is, ultimately, entirely mundane.

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So…basicaly the four empire when they expande into the star ?

So, they come in, they mess with the stars, and when they do, the options appear to be ‘get injected with their bioadaptive crap, or die’.

That sounds a whole lot like ‘we’re going to forcibly insert ■■■■ into you’ and ‘what results isn’t actually who or what you used to be anymore, it’s just something like it’.

Which could, in fact, be taken as both rape and genocide.


And where are you getting the news that they force people into getting bio adapted?

and you’re really stupid if you think getting bio adapted is even close to rape or genocide. Especially when we know close to nothing about the process.

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Did I miss something? Was I not invited to the rape and genocide parties? Is this another episode of “the Gallente are a culture monolith so that means they MUST be raping people” show?

is especially hilarious with the immediate caveat of,

How can one be so keen to defend something they know so little about?


I am sure it is fine. It is probably like getting vaccinated.

Well, as long as you’re sure.

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" The women in particular, have not fared well under their Gallente jail masters, who have remorselessly taken whatever they desired from their captured prey."

So if I ask a security agent what they think of the Triglavians and they tell me about all the bad things Triglavians do, you’ll believe them there too, right?

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Don’t forget that the apparent actions of a select, minute group of people absolutely reflects on a population of billions upon billions on different planets, colonies, member-states, stations, and otherwise. I’m so sorry I forgot this crucial detail. Thank you!