No, that’s directly from you affirmation that time between actions is important for the definition of AFK. Therefore, the direct and only way to make all ships less AFK is only to increase the yield of ALL ships, so that ANY ship that is used AFK will be less used AFK.
As long as you assume "how long a player can mine without input " important in AFK mining, then the direct solution is to increase the yield on all ships. With infinite yield you have nobody AFK since they could just come, mine 0s and go back with their ore full.
No, because your notion of AFK relies on the assumption that low APM is AFK. In reality, you can be AFK in any activity.
The reality, is that your definition of AFK is flawed to start with. Just because you run the illusion of “low APM = AFK”. You are just assuming FALSE things. And then you say I’m nitpicking ? Only if telling you why your argument is stupid, is nitpicking.
You are misusing a term to make a stupid argument look like it makes sense. It does not.
Fit a praxis with a a civilian miner and cargoholds only.
It takes 3H to mine its cargo, which is lower than a covetor’s.
Fit a praxis with nothing. It’s infinitely AFK ! You can change all other parameters, it will remain infinitely AFK.
This absurd result proves that your definition of “AFK” is wrong.
The link between AFK and APM is an illusion. You can be AFK in any activity. It’s just being AFK. The “low APM mining” is the direct result of having low yield. It does not “enable” AFK.
I would say “yes, to some extent.” I spend most of my time in New Eden mining. If I’m in a 0.9 system, I often step away for a few minutes to wash the dishes, start making dinner, vacuum, etc. If I’m in a 0.7 system, I often step away to get some chips, use the restroom, etc.
I don’t mine in systems lower than 0.7 unless it’s a moon-mining event with my corpmates.
When I mine alone I almost always have a book open in front of me. I pay more attention to the book than to the screen.
No mystery, it’s exactly what goons chimed before, “we are not here to ruin the game, we are here to ruin your game”.
That’s it, just people who are miserable folks who just like being that way to ruin things for others, there is no reasoning, no compromise, no negotiation, they simply hate for the sake of hate, they can claim this or that but from my point of view if I’m ratting and pop into a belt I really don’t even give any thought to people who are there mining.
OK, sure. But how often do you come back to your ship being idle, having depleted the rocks you had targeted? That’s not really mining.
Conversely, how many people do you think dock up or log out to get a cup of coffee or go for a quick bio when doing almost everything else? I’m sure plenty of folks park somewhere relatively safe to go for a quick pee all the time.
I’m similar, but most often tabbed to some tv show or reddit, or a book on my phone. But again, that’s not AFK.
And it’s not even about ganking, that’s whatever and easy to avoid , for the most part. I’m more thinking of the constant drumbeat of people calling for nerfs to Orca mining. people who want the game changed because other people who they are imagining are playing in a way they don’t like makes them mad.
If you can set your Orca up to pick up new targets when rocks go depleted, reassign drones, move around the belt and run away when someone scary turns up, all while you are at work, that’s not AFK, that’s botting.
I do this when say folding the laundry. Some weeks the wife and see who will not fold the longest if a rough irl schedule lol.
So when I lose from this has to end its put the endurance in a high sec collection of rocks (not even going to call this crap now belts…I remember rocks that made even made cruisers look tiny lol). 0.0 even a mining rokh looked so small even.
Fire it up. Fold, see rock burned out, lock and mine new one, fold again. Repeat.
See rats show up, drone em (why the endurance, its has a drone bay).
fold. another rock dies all too quickly, feed another one, fold.
Technically AFK. As not by keyboard, yes. About as technical as classifying a pencil as a weapon. I mean if I do a John wick and stick a pencil in a hole in the head yes its now a weapon that can kill someone lol.
But not what I deem “the old ways” afk. That was run the hulk and not be in the room for a really really long time.
Some definition of afk is way too broad. Under their view for many a sov bash op I AFK"d it. If no defence op came to counter the bash op its literally Press f1 till the ammo runs out.
press f1 again when reloaded.
Internet meme voice 1 or 2 hours later…a pos or some structure is dead. Watched alot of youtube back in the day. Tons even…
I’m not sure what you mean by “that’s not really mining.” I often return to the screen to find that the asteroid I was working on is depleted. I just move on to the next one.
I don’t have a hulk, just a Covetor or Retriever. Nothing I can’t easily replace. And I don’t leave the room for a long time unless I’m in a 0.9 system.
For me, Eve is a way to escape for a few minutes or a couple hours from this horrible time we are living in. Mining quietly helps me relax. Mining while reading a book is even more fun.
So I had a post about a similar topic not long ago. Basically what came from it is that AFK is a more or less worthless term. I can be just as unresponsive at my keyboard as away, and there is no way, short of watching me personally, to tell if I am here or not. APM or maximum time between inputs are only slightly better, but are completely based on ship, fit, and skills, so it is also hard to balance off of. For the purpose of keeping things easy, I will still call it AFK as I go.
Also, how do we define what threshold is a problem? If being able to not interact with the game for 5 minutes or more is the threshold, then there are tons of stuff in Eve that can be AFKed. And we would have massive nerfs coming in across the board.
From my own personal research for my thread, it is possible to mine in an Orca without interacting with it for around 30 minutes at max skills, if you can find a belt with 5 large asteroids to split your drones around. Now just because its possible, doesn’t mean it is widely done. And finding those special belts with the right kind of rocks can be hard to come by.
I think the real issue is that because Orca’s can mine at the same scale as a boosted T1 barge with T1 lasers, more people are going Orca for the EHP. Which means fewer miners are dying to gankers. And even though ideas have been posted about changes to the Orca that would allow it to still be a decent miner and not be as AFKable, we will probably see a nerf removing most, if not all, of its mining. CCP’s spin on it is that the Orca’s role is to be a completely AFK boosting alt instead of a possibly AFK miner.
Nighthawks and Damnations may be command ships, but they are still very similar to their T1 options.
They’re slightly more powerful (and much more expensive) version of the T1 fighting ships, with command burst bonuses.
Are Orcas a T2 version of T1 mining ships, with command burst bonuses? Nope.
Orcas have a different role than specialised mining ships. Orcas have huge specialised cargo holds, fleet hangars and ship maintenance bays, remote repair bonuses as well as 10 to 50 times as much EHP as mining barges.
Orcas are fleet support ships.
And as a mining fleet supporter, they have some mining drone bonuses so they have something to do while supporting the mining fleet.
But if put into a quiet system far from the permit collectors can afk decent. Unlike a venture or endurance 3 belt rats showing up on rounds not really an issue lol.
People who use this method skip the whole going back every 5 to 15K of ore hold fill up.
Efficient? Not looking like it. But if it makes em happy.
Personally if someone is looking for afk I’d guide them to a hard to probe fof missile t3c setup. Get one of those one room rat fest missions, drop it in there. Right click orbit full burn afterburner speed tank with cap stable active tank mixed. Now this…is walk away for minutes at a time. FOF kills slow as hell imo.
Not very efficient though. But it is making you isk while you do dishes or something lol.
T3c I’d advise since you can drop that sig radius to strength ratio real low, and they speed/sig tank nice. the sensor subsystem, 1 SB eccm scripted , 1 sig amp. This has you well on the way to hard to probe. Racial sensor implants sets top it off nice.
You can fof a fat sig radius missile BS. But you aren’t hard to find by even an average scanner. NOt good, imo, when you plan on not only being AFK, but away from the whole room. Same for T1 or t2 BC/Cruiser. They don’t have that sensor subsystem…its really jsut good for this.
Not infinite but you can put in ton of missiles. It feeds for a while. Its better than trying to “afk” an endurance. That can be rock targeting every laser cycle on the non veld rocks. They melt too damn fast.
edit: the tradeoffs here is this is slow as hell. And FOF will hit a baiter for someting they do and now you just gave them open season on you. Where as if you were there, you might ignore this…and they got nothing.
FOF works on the same ai like full aggro drones. Same reason why you carefully ran drone boats afk before they kept playing the drone AI and changed rat aggro. Your drones take the bait…you came back to 1 dead VNI (liked before gila came around).
Everyone here has already made the points that I am about to make. Basically, in High sec it is possible to get a ship, be it a praxis or an orca (my preference is orca), drop it at a belt and set it to mine. Then you can leave your PC for an extended period of time with minimal risk.
People have quoted different numbers for different ships and assumed certain roid sizes. I don’t want to get into an argument about that. The point is that you can set it to mine and forgot about it while you read a book or watch a movie. If the roids get mined out while you are away then there will be some down time but the amount of ISK made per minute of your time spent actually playing is very good. I can make about 10-15 million isk per hour in my orca but I only need to be playing for about 3 minutes out of every hour. So 10-15 million isk for 3 minutes of actual in-game ‘work’. The objection to this form of AFK mining is that active players in a ship that requires more constant attention will have a hard time competing with this (You might be able to make more per hour in a covetor or a hulk but you will need to sit there for most of that hour and actually play the game, as opposed to my 3 minutes of investment).
Obviously suicide ganks are a possibility but I have been safe so far in 0.7+ systems (I might just be lucky).
So yes, it is possible to mine in high sec and be largely AFK. It is annoying to compete with AFK miners. That is why I started doing it myself (if you can’t beat them, join them). I welcome any changes by CCP to make AFK mining in High-Sec more difficult, but while it is feasible, you can’t blame people for doing it. CCP’s job is to make exploitative practices infeasible through adjustments to game mechanics (for example, rats that target drones more often would screw up my operation pretty hard) I have no experience AFK mining in Low or Null sec. I assume that is more about botting than being AFK.
I am not picking a fight with anyone here. This is just my 2 cents. You’ve all made fair points
Maxed skills with t2 drones mines out 89k m3/ hour, on current prices after tax (at perimeter) the most valuable ore is veldspar which would worth 13 million (after pewrfect refining in perimeter). But you wont get this much volume cause downtime of drones, small asteroids, being afk etc. so your stated 10-15 million isk/hour is not true . With not active mining its closer to maybe 5 million.
It’s not profitable even if you are completely attentive, everything else in comparison is much more profitable, in 2 hours I believe it was like 7 million in ore with an expedition frigate mining 2 lasers, mining drones, total yield set up with those boosters they gave us, veld, plag, and prox, honestly it’s worthless today.
