Does anyone notice nobody talks and local anymore

Well that one in particular is prone to just insult people and throw nasty one liners around to try to get a rise, but just exposes himself as bitter and angry every time he does it.

You and I remember C&P when it was fun.

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You realise I’m neither code nor a ganker…

Bears like you always calling other people toxic, but look at your reaction.

The irony in your posting.

I think you should take a step back and look through this thread again. I haven’t been calling for tears or making personal attacks but you just can’t help yourself. As soon as someone shows your inadequacy you nerd rage.

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Inadequacy? Where? How? What was proven? You just make declarations and then run on it. You don’t see what you are doing. I do. Everybody else does. This is why I’m calling you toxic. This is why they don’t like you. Snap out of your bubble.

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Plays the victim card…then rages when its point out how false their victimhood really is…

Your inadequacy in making honest and civil discussion.

The way you try to play victim but can’t because you trigger so hard when someone points out you’re wrong.

You’re a prime example of what I’m talking about. Can’t have everything your way, not surrounded by sycophants so you throw a tantrum.

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I have been very honest in calling you out. And I have not resorted to ad hominem attacks attacks. And I am not convinced that you have “pointed out that I’m wrong”. What you have done is manage to prove me right.

And you keep doing it. This is the point I’m trying to get across. This is how you communicate. Now if I was in local, with you, do I want to talk to you or someone like you? Hell no. Do I want to risk that someone I could talk to might be like you? Not if I wanted to have a good time. Maybe if I wanted to babysit I could. But that’s boring.

Toxic people are generally avoided. This has always been the case. Maybe you are so used to being like this that it’s natural to you. Chances are you suck the energy out of the room when you enter. You can improve if you work at it, but you have to be brutally honest with yourself instead of accusing others of dishonesty.

You even admit that you are not a ganker or with Code, so you are a third party to this, and you are posting their link to make your point. You have not even put up, but you won’t shut up.

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If the posts on this forum are any indication of the type of conversation you’ll get in-game then it really is no surprise people keep quiet.

One person posted a few days ago upset that members of CCP were making important announcements on Twitter and Reddit but not on their own forums. Someone responded “they’d end up having to lock the thread if they posted on the forums”. It’s true. I find most threads on this forum just end up in an off-topic flame war.

Check out this thread. OP posts that CCP is adding a lot of solo activities and is concerned that the MMORPG is losing its “MMO”. What happens? 50 replies arguing about the definition of an instance. Not what OP asked. Not on topic. Just useless arguing. Now imagine talking to these guys in local.

Can everyone just relax a bit and enjoy the game?

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Daichi isn’t toxic, by any reasonable definition.

But on topic, have “toxic” people been the cause of the decline in public social interaction and decrease in use of local in recent years? I kinda doubt it. The game has always had abrasive and unpleasant people around, since day one, and is also equipped with a fully functional block button. If anything, Eve has mellowed in the years I have been playing, with the worst of the racial and hateful slurs squashed that were common place in 2011/2012 when I started, and a strong culture of “The Friendship” for lack of a better term has taken hold.

I think more likely, it is mostly a function of less players in highsec - the place where you are exposed in local to strangers the most - due to the buffs in nullsec drawing some away, and pushing others out of the game, and a migration to the mature out-of-game channels, primarily Discord, we have seen in recent years. Looking at the numbers, highsec has 50% of the activity, maybe even 33% by now, of the heyday in 2014, and that, coupled with the network effect, has reduced interactions. I also think, of all the players, the silent solo archetype is the most likely to remain, probably skewing the population more towards silence. Also, new players, maybe the ones most likely to talk, are these days efficiently vacuumed up to nullsec groups where they are presumably chatting away, leaving the past stomping grounds of the newbro quiet.

More players, and more players in highsec will improve things. Fingers crossed for the latest expansion bringing reasons to interact and play again back to highsec. :crossed_fingers:

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Ask yourself the same question…

I pointed out that the people you would call victim, including yourself, are often the ones that are most hostile and make things personal. Case in point above. You say you haven’t made ad hominem attacks but you are referring to me personally in your posts.

And the real irony is this bit.

Yes. It and your posting shows my point perfectly.

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I would like to point out that all he did was linking a certain site, yet you start throwing a tantrum and calling him toxic. Isn’t that a bit excessive?

I’ve linked EVE-related sites before, possibly even the minerbumping site, since it’s common knowledge and can give good information about high sec ganking for people who are new to the game. That doesn’t mean I’m affiliated with such a site. I don’t know Daichi Yamato, but from what he has said in this thread, he doesn’t seem to be affiliated with them either, he merely linked a site.

I would suggest you to read back calmly what Daichi and you both said, and look for the thing that caused you to get angry at him and caused you to call him toxic.

From my perspective it looked like this happened:

Daichi links minerbumping > Herzog assumes Daichi is part of CODE > Herzog assumes Daichi is toxic because he is part of CODE > Herzog accuses Daichi of being toxic

Lots of unnecessary anger as a result of a few (completely wrong?) assumptions.

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Thanks bud!

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It’s annoying how all interesting discussions turn to the “personal aggression is an adequate argument” fallacy.

It’s almost like whatever the subject is, there are people who have a personal interest in preventing discussion on this topic.

For me “toxic” people are the ones who say they have a shared interest but in effect are trying to take the benefit from you. Most of your CODE. hypocritical friends go into that group : they invade a discussion space to prevent discussion, they make logical fallacies in order to insult people who don’t agree with them (going as far as claiming CCP said the opposite of what they said).
They never agreed on being wrong, even after FACTS showed they had been. They are actively and on purpose pushing people out of the forum because “That’s best for the game if you GO AWAY”.
They are the definition of what “toxic behavior” is.

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I see no monopoly on passionate, and sometimes counter-productive/toxic behaviour on any side of the debates that routinely pop-up on these forums. People have different opinions. People accept different collections of facts. People have different experiences. I’ll agree that some posters on these forums, and elsewhere, sometimes engage with the discourse as if it were a bloodsport, seeking victory, or at least are so strongly motivated by their convictions they sometimes fail to consider other perspectives.

But arguing passionately your differing view isn’t toxic. Even if they make some logical fallacies or have different premises, experiences, or perspectives than you. That is human discourse and can be messy and combative and heated. And when things here do drift into toxicity, trolling or other bad behaviour such that the moderates need to step in, it is players on all sides the debates that engage in such deplorable actions from my experience.

Regardless, it also isn’t especially relevant of what goes on in game that would explain people not talking in local that is the topic of this thread. Do people really think the arguing over game design or mechanics that goes on here is the cause of the increasing silence of local chat? I mean, I can count on one hand the number of times I remember discussions like we see here break out in local. In specialized channels perhaps, but not local.

Ultimately, I find it hard to think political? or maybe ideological Eve debates have dampened local chat since they have be raging on the forums since 2003. Nor do I think some third-party websites showcasing player interactions and player-generated stories is important at all. There have been some significant changes in player demographics in the last 5-6 years that is a much more simple explanation for the changes in local chat activity noted in the OP.

Affirming obvious nonsense like “correlation is causation” is not arguing. This is a logical fallacy that is used to scam people IRL. That is used in politics to lie to people.
The other logical fallacy they use is that just because they don’t know, then it MUST be a given explanation without any further information (argument ad ignorance). It’s also used in politics to propose false answers to ambiguous issues.

Those two ways to present things make no room for arguing, no room for debate. They only show a voluntary will to lie to people and propagate false information for a vested interest. I wished the forum had a way to block people for several month so as not to lose time reading their lies.

In the post about bumping in which someone said “ccp acknowledged the issue”, they kept claiming CCP had never talked about the 3min warp timer, and when someone presents a CCP fanfest (IIRC) video with it, then no excuse, just more “it’s not official CCP” crap.

They kept repeating that “CCP said more PVP means better retention” even though I kept repeating them that this was completely wrong. When I finally got a video from CCP that exactly says what I had been saying, then nothing, no apologize for their insults and their spreading of crap.

There is no discussion here. They are not here to get other opinions ; they are here to look down and insult people with a different opinion.

Now I can tell you the same thing from local : it’s used so much for propaganda/scam/trashtalking I just always hide it. I have a lots of people blocked (no CODE. member though) but I just can’t stand the requirement to filter out all the trash. So if I could have only the intel part of local, without the communication, I would never show the communication part (the communcaition part is hidden behind overview)

It’s not a “social” game when you need to hide the discussion with people. It’s a good game, with bad tasting social interactions. I don’t mean all but the most those provided in local chat. I agree that sometimes I use local, typically when I steal something from someone in HS or kill someone (in a way that does not trigger concord). But in the end it’s always the same russian insults, or the same CODE. nonsense. (I actually met nice people with local but it’s been a while so now I only can see trashtalk)

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That’s … so bad, really, i hope you’re not actually serious. Poe’s Law is always in effect and gullible idiots might actually believe this.

I have to say, how is it not toxic to make ■■■■■■■■ up about things that only happened that way because you want to believe they happened that way, despite them not making any sense?

The reason why people stopped talking in local definitely isn’t because of those people talking in local. That doesn’t even make sense! New players especially, later in the stage of “silent local”, would have no ■■■■■■■ idea about why it’s silent in the first place or why it would supposedly be better to stay silent!

All they get to see is silent local, or they’re not paying attention at all!

Pedro and me extensively experimented in modern local and I have multiple years of experience with being active in local! @Pix_Severus and @Black_Pedro can confirm that I talk a ■■■■■■■ LOT and it’s super effective!

The situation nowadays is a far cry from what it was and it has NOTHING to do with some few griefers the assholes here want to exaggerate into an actual problem.

This is just the typical toxic carebear nonsense who just found a convinient new attack vector they can pretend exists. Fact is that in 2012 there were far more people active, also paying attention to local, and interacting with others.

Anyone claiming that the activity itself is what caused the activity to cease has no actual wider social experience using local in highsec, or likely none at all. Anyone claiming that it’s just griefers everywhere is flat out lieing!

Case in point: The social hub that once was deltole! The ones who actually caused it to cease to exist where farmers who griefed the people who were social by not sharing any of the NPCs and loot, like people in deltole did for many YEARS before! I grew up there, it was amazing and I knew almost everyone back then, because we all talked!

The reason why local activity died a slow death, over many months, was CCP’s changes of game mechanics over time.

It was changes CCP made that caused changes in the people’s behaviour. There is no room to argue here, some actually toxic people just want to make some minority of people look bad so they make a blanket statement confirming their actually toxic views.

They’re the assholes. They’re the ones who wouldn’t talk in local.
They’re the ones who make people attack them, because they’re assholes.

Of course the world’s going to be full of griefers,
when you’re an asshole constantly asking for it with your shitty behaviour!

Sheesh!

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Wow, what a train-wreck of a thread!

Now that I’m back in high sec for the foreseeable future, I’ll be sure to engage in general chitchat when I can. I do find some of the comments about the presence of all the griefers, scary neutrals, and general unpleasant people in high to be somewhat amusing. Surely it can’t have changed that much in a couple of years?
I think that about all I ever said in local when I was in null, was something like “lol, missed” when a hostile tried to catch me at a customs office. I’ve already said more in local since returning.

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Your choice of words reveals your intent. The usual “control of the language” thing that I notice enough that I don’t get fooled by the news any more.

He linked Code, then when called out on it, hides behind “I’m not a ganker!”. What if I linked some very questionable websites?

Meanwhile you carefully miss his other comments. Yes, you too are toxic, trying to pretend you are not. I know that game.

Somebody tell me if this is toxic or not, in spite of the claims for toxicity … 2019.04.12 02:43:03 ] Kantar Vilorious > toilet (permit) paper?
[ 2019.04.12 02:45:03 ] Australian Excellence > ag sure are ■■■■ and failing still
[ 2019.04.12 02:45:16 ] Australian Excellence > why havent they just ended theimselves yet xfDXDFXDXDxdxD
[ 2019.04.12 02:45:19 ] Australian Excellence > biggest losers
**[ 2019.04.12 02:45:29 ] Australian Excellence > never forget that ex antiganker who ended it all**
[ 2019.04.12 02:45:51 ] Australian Excellence > #toxic players, #betalosers
[ 2019.04.12 02:46:31 ] JACKED OG > Australian Excellence we like to be toxic to the community in .5 sec
[ 2019.04.12 02:47:07 ] Kantar Vilorious > toxic miner bump?
[ 2019.04.12 02:47:21 ] Hey Youguyz > oh boy
[ 2019.04.12 02:47:23 ] Australian Excellence > how your mums basement going kid? must be sad xdXZDXDXDXD
[ 2019.04.12 02:47:37 ] Nokachi Dochrir > Teatsy Fly o7
[ 2019.04.12 02:47:50 ] Jean Grima > another onebites the dust
[ 2019.04.12 02:47:57 ] Australian Excellence > spends 50 hours a week failing nonostop

Gloating on a suicide is not toxic. No no no.

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This is not toxic,this is just being an asshole. Just block him or better don’t show local chat.

Can confirm. Sol knows how to get local buzzing, and it’s a glorious sight when it happens.

I agree. I believe a lot of players use “griefers” as an excuse for their own apathy when it comes to forming relationships, which is the end-goal of talking with people you don’t know in local.

Pedro

It’s not the topics like “arguing over game design” that make these forums (especially this one) into an advertisement for playing EVE either solo or not at all. And hence indirectly suggests local chat is not worth considering.

It’s the routine use of negative techniques to disrupt and derail the discussions. It’s not all that many posters either, but they are prolific and relentlessly destructive. They have two hallmarks:

  • Personal attacks as their default form of communication
  • Repeated use of well-known and obvious fallacies to “re-purpose the truth” to suit themselves

A casual visitor would certainly conclude that talking to EVE players is a waste of effort, because so many posts in here seem designed to prove the game is played by the kind of people you’d never talk to twice IRL.

A more experienced gamer would note that the toxic content comes from relatively few posters, but that hardly anyone tries to help the other small minority: those who want a interesting or useful discussions about EVE.
This is less unequivocal evidence, but “Lex parsimoniae” suggest we start with:

  • CCP doesn’t mind people who might as well be deliberate saboteurs (are are the real thing - the distinction doesn’t matter in practice)
  • Other players accept this behavior as “EVE normal”, which reinforces any reservations about talking to other EVE players

There’'s nothing about EVE that encourages the kind of social interaction many people play MMOs for. And there’s a lot that suggests the nice people are a small minority.

It’s possible there are plenty of nice people in EVE. They might just be hidden by the others (who are definitely out there). But if they exist in reasonable numbers, the effort required to find them is astronomically higher than any other multiplayer game I’ve played, or seen friends play.

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