this is a question Ive been having does having a pos tower make it where you can be war deced. i ask because it says a HQ structure and that i know you cant really make that an HQ so im wondering about this.
You can receive wars, but not start them.
wait so they can war you but you cant start them wtf kinda sence does that make. i mean i guess thats one way to kill empty pos towers
CCP was pussyfooting around in their desire to nerf wars into the ground but not at the same time send across the message that they’re anti-PvP, so they tied them to a structure requirement. Owning any kind of structure (not including temporary deployables) in high-sec makes you eligible for wars.
You need to own an actual Upwell structure to start wars, because they intended attackers to “put something on the line” for wars, but the only effect that had on the war scene it that is caused war groups to ball up into massive cartels, so they aren’t losing those structures anyway by virtue of collective defense and NAPs. Meanwhile, about 95% of the high-sec population is now immune to PvP, and material inflation has reached such unprecedented heights, that they had to create Trigs and diamond rats and implement scarcity in order to save the economy from annihilation.
CCP is dumb. That about sums it up, I think.
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i kinda agree with this statement but idk about the whole people being immune to attacks in hs because i feel anyone anytime can be war and there â– â– â– â– get kicked in. but if you just wana kill pos towers for a living i guess you can war someone and just clean up the towers. or if you have several in the system you live in then you could just blow them up and call it good.
but thank you for the info.
What kind of “living” would that be? You don’t make any money by blowing them up, and each war costs 100 million.
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hmmm… I think he wanted to use the POS structures for something else otherwise him putting them up is just as pointless as deccing an empty POS. Also… you angry because you cannot declare war, but you can ally with just a pos.
You can only wardec people if you have a Citidal you can choose as WAR HQ. POS does not fit into that. If you could do that with a POS as well I will put up a Death Star the first chanceI got… POS are a lot harder to destroy vs Citadels.
Just having a POCO make you war eligible since you sometimes people do want to remove them.
Aside from ganking obviously, cuz that’s never going away and is a very important part of the ecosystem.
Anyways, why do you phrase the widespread wardec immunity like it’s a bad thing? Idk about you but I think the era where you could be wardecced for not being in an NPC corp, was bad design. Say what you want about risk and reward but a couple things should be noted
1: Wardecs are not good for new players. CCP’s own data has shown that newbies being wardecced leads to simple inactivity, rather than meaningful engagements with the wardeccers. This is the nature of 1-sided pvp (the wardeccers know how eve works, newbies dont, meaning the wardeccers will effectively always come out on top, which was reflected again in data showing that in most hisec wardecs, the vast majority of kills came from just 1 side)
2: Incentivizing players to be in NPC corps instead of real corps by having only NPC corps be immune to wardecs, is bad design for an MMO. In any MMO but especially eve, people are supposed to interact and form friendships and whatever, so having design elements that push people away from such is bad design imo.
The changes to wardecs such that you couldn’t be wardecced all willy nilly were imo very good decisions, and if hisec ISK production needs to be addressed, it should be done by nerfing the profitability of whatever is being problematic. Right now, nullsec doesn’t make much and hisec makes a lot, we’re essentially in the reverse situation of a few years ago.
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There are other ways to balance wars that don’t involve making all but a few percent of the population ineligible for them. For example, handicapping the war fee based on the relative number of skill points and/or player age between the two sides, creating in-game tools for a vibrant mercenary market that would enable war groups to compete against each other for work, reputation, and territory, and creating win conditions as incentives for defenders, such as for example making them win the war fee if they manage to do a certain amount of damage (which could also be subject to skill/age handicap scales).
But all of this would require work that isn’t easily featured as a marquee for a “BUY NOW!” banner ad on their website or in some shilled gaming media article.
From the perspective of someone who chose to play a game that features PvP as one of its main features (if not the main feature), but doesn’t want to take part in PvP under any circumstances, yes.
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That can be gamed though… nothing stops a person from creating lots of brand new chars on alpha accounts and have them join the corp to artificially inflate the potential war costs with low sp chars.
I feel like this quote applies to so many things that it should be used more often, thx
I never said newbies or people who think hisec wardecs are bad don’t want to pvp anywhere, but imo it’s important that there be SOME level of safety so that things like market hubs can exist, without everyone needing non-wardec market alts and ■■■■. Hisec is built around the idea that pvp is less prevalent, so either pvp should be less prevalent than in other areas, or hisec should stop being designed around that idea
Easily fixed by applying an analytic formula that cuts off the outliers. For example, it would be possible to work with the median and not the average. I’m sure given a few months of discussion and development time, a solution can be achieved that is based around this concept, which would be much more preferable to what we have now.
I’ve mentioned this before numerous times, and will again:
I’ve sat in dozens of new-player-heavy high-sec corporations during my active war days, and new players were by far the most willing to group up and fight “for the good of the motherland.” The only time that they logged off and/or quit the game because of wars was when the CEOs/directors told them to do it, and generally created an aura of despondency in the corporation. When the complaints and whining come down from the top, it ruins everyone’s mood.
The greatest obstacle to player retention from the perspective of wars is not wars themselves, but unspeakably terrible leadership from veteran carebear CEOs who have no business running corporations to begin with.
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Oof, yea that’s pretty unfortunate if the main source of the problems is from incompetent leadership. Unfortunately incompetent leadership will always exist and it can be very hard for newbies to find good corps to join if they never ask around on the forums or reddit. The in-game corporation finder is awful and doesn’t give any sort of guidance for newbies. Still, I think even if CEOs and directors weren’t telling them to log off a lot of newbies still would anyways upon realizing they either can’t leave cuz their station/system is camped, or they can’t visit Jita without dying to a camp. It’s all 1 big family of suffering.
That is why wars should be cheaper for big corps and more expensive for smaller corps. It should be dirt cheap to war dec a corp/alliance that has 5k people but it should be somewhat deterreningly expensive to war dec a corp with 10 chars without a clear objective. Especially now that structures require the cores, which provide a ton of rewards for grabbing them, a war against a 1-char structure holding corp can cost 200-300M easily, while a war against a corp with 500-1000 chars and beyond should only cost pennies in comparison.
Furthermore, corps with more than 1000 chars should not be war dec immune, regardless whether they have a structure or not. It makes no sense why such a big corp/alliance should be safe from wars even though they have more chars than most war dec corps combined.
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It is a good way to assist in wars without having to invest heavily into Upwell structures. If you just want to assist a friendly corp in a war, a POS is much cheaper than an Upwell structure.
Even newbies understand the concepts of using undock bookmarks/travel fits, and shopping alts.
The interference from wars doesn’t affect basic movement and UI usage, but money-generating activities (e.g. can’t get a mining fleet going because WTs are in the system). And that, essentially, is the purpose of war; to deny economic opportunity.
The natural process that addresses this is that the weak corporations/alliances break up and die, and the players from them join/make new ones. Some of these corporations will be strong enough to survive, and those corporations will in time become the powerhouses of the game. By saying that every single high-sec carebear corporation needs to be given an uninhibited opportunity to survive, you actually hurt players by ensuring that they don’t go through this adaptation process and improve their skills. And this, actually, is one of the reasons why null-sec stagnated so much. All of these weak-ass carebear corporations evolved into null-sec farming renters, which changed the landscape into one big blue donut.
Everything is tied together in this manner.
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All they had to do back then is cap the max number of decs to something reasonable, like 10, and make it more difficult for members of a war starting group to join another corp. Where if you leave a corp that has an active war going that they started they can’t join another corp for 7 days.
That way wardecs would be less random, solo or small corp wardeccing would still be viable and it couldn’t be gamed to avoid the Dec cap by jumping corps.
The vast majority of wars Ive been in have ended because I called their bluff.
The rest have ended because I got some friends (in a PvE friendly alliance) to ally, or even just show up in a few random ships.
Avoiding decs is as much a game as any other part, and it always has been, its just easier now.
In fact, the last war ended because the deccer didnt know what they were doing and for some reason thought my uncored fuelled station (sorry, “Structure”) counted as “Abandoned” and was surprised when his hq was burned down.
I did something like that a good while back. A show of force after our friends were decced. Good times.
It truly is a shame what CCP have done to the wardec mechanic.
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I don’t believe I gave you a heart.
Such elegant post concise and totally right.
now now, let’s work on that aggressive behavior.