Drake fitting is impossible! level 4 mission running

Those don’t work when people can suddenly disappear with the money you lent them.

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Not talking about players-run banks but empire-run, a real-like fleshed out banking system. Right now Capsuleers can’t even get a loan because there are no loan officers… there isn’t even a stock market and it’s supposed to be a gazillion years in the future.

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There is no loan to capsuleers, because capsuleers can suddenly disappear.

There is no stock market, because RL companies have loans.

In New Eden, with great powers come no responsibility.

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Collateral is a thing.

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It’s only a thing when there is a value from the collateral.

Say an alien comes and want 5$ with the collateral is his spaceship. How do I know he is not fooling me ?
Maybe his spaceship is 1. unusable by me, 2. not even him to start with, 3. produced en-masse with 0 cost, 4. about to break and the cost of repairing is higher than what I could get from it. 5. subject to incoming taxes that I could not pay.
Even worse if he can suicide and be teleported back to his planet in the blink of his fourth eye !

Everything sold in Market has value in ISK. Those over-priced ships that we build or buy can be used as collateral.

Until you sell them on the market, their value is 0.
What if I sell a lot of useless stuff to myself at an astronomical price, then use that useless item as a collateral with an high average price ?

Collateral value could be basd on the items’ materials cost… look, there are very brainy people running CCP. I’m very sure that if they wanted to they could certainly do it. Especially after having players pay for taxes without having a viable financial system for New Eden.

Then you need to have a fixed material cost, eg with NPCs buying stuff.
At this point, you can also have fixed cost for all things. Then YES you can have meaningful collateralized loans.

FWIW that was already done when you had excess of mats in places where it was difficult to move the mats. Build ship, insure it, explode it : you are literally paid money for destruction. This happened when some moon goo had minerals in them, don’t know if it’s still a thing. (insurance value is based on the materials)

Also the “item material cost” depends on a lot of things. base BPO ? ME10 BPO ? ME10+rigged structure in FW area ? ATM there is no intrinsic minimal mat required (even though there is practically one) so this kind of process could lead to later abuse. That’s actually why I made that proposal : Some Ideas of mine - #7 by stefnia_Freir

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Would love to continue this convo here:

We are way off-topic and I don’t want to write for hours only for ISD to take a malicious pleasure in deleting the posts for some camamimi reason and also so people don’t say I’m a troll because I find it impolite not to reply unless I’m ignoring the person.

Because it can reliably do them.

There is no serious DPS requirement in lvl non-burners, as most deadspace NPCs don’t have active tank. You can wreck them with the 50dps you get from an interceptor if you want and have the patience to.

Most mission deadspaces don’t disallow warping with the deadspace pocket, so you can just warp to the acceleration gate if you’re more then 150km away.

On any Cruiser and smaller target, 370dps from caldari faction missiles heavies is more dps then 440dps from furies, which btw is the same to 580dps from a twin BC single-tp caldari cruise raven, and the 370dps of the faction heavies is more then twice the dps on cruisers than the 710dps from a fury cruise raven :wink:

Even on Battlecruiser Targets the 370dps from Caldari Navy Missiles is competitive with the fury heavies and the fury cruises from a Raven

The propmods are disabled in both charts because deadspace NPCs don’t prop.

The reason I wanted to use Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missiles before I messed up and posted the fit with AutoTargetting CalNavy Heeavies, is because they have a good combination of application, damage and range, adding to the boringness of the fit that it barely ever really needs to switch ammo, as any “dangerous” small ship, most notriously anything with a warp disruptor, can be killed before it’s in range, and those not deemed dangerous can probably be tanked.

I’ve never been dampened to below half range but maybe I just didn’t run the missions hard enough to get the randomly applied effects stack up sufficiently. A tripple dampener fit Keres w/o scripts would bring a Typhoon to 48km sensor range, while it would dampen the drake down to 52km with sensor optimization, or at 45km with the hardening script, i.e. the optimization script is actually superior in that situation.

The majority of dampeners are on the elite frigates and the elite cruisers though, so a drake can MJD , then manuver subwarp, eventually with afterburner, and as the dampening elite frigates approach it at a higher velocity then the dampening elite cruisers which again approach faster then the BS, they come into range first and w/o their mainline firepower support being in effective combat range yet. Wrecking the elite frigates will enhance the drake’s sensor range, then wrecking the dampening cruisers either immediately within sensor range once the frigate originating dampeners were taken out, or when they cruisers move into range on their own. The BS based dampeners won’t debuff the drake hard enough to force it into their effective combat range unless their dampeners stack on cruiser and frigate dampeners.

Another way to handle them is to MJD, AB away and MJD and so on to have the BS lose effects while more importantly creating a seperation between the frigs, the cruisers and the BS that each are approaching the drake at different velocities. Each time the MJD is used, create a bookmark, and once the distance is large enough, warp on a location the BS are closest. The frigates and cruisers will now be far away as they charged towards your former location, and will not have the drake in range, so the BS can be handled without having to bother about the debuffing effects of the elites, whose webs would significantly increase the battleship NPC’s damage application on the drake. It’s more what is done with a HAML fit then with a Heavy one.

Sensor Strength btw has no impact on dampening effects, it’s for ECM only.

LVL3 missions usually spawn within 4 jumps of the agent’s station, given the session changes and the slow travel of the drake, that’ll be a considerable time just to get to those deadspaces w/o even considering the time to clear them.

I don’t think you can run 6x lvl3 in the time it takes to do a lvl4. Two, maybe 3, but no 6.

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On that note, you can edit your post and just answer “fixed” :slight_smile: . Which was more like what I expected when I said to not use a painter with AT.
ATs are very good, but with a guidance computer+rigor. Nighthawk for example makes very good use of them : it can get perfect application with only 3 GC, and it’s tank is good enough to enable hyperspatial/nanofiber fit . It’s important to split your launchers and phase shift them so that you don’t lose too much to overshot.

It depends largely on what missions you accept. Some L4 missions are also always in the same system. Some have constellation limit. Some have 2 constellation limit.

However I think he meant, that you fit would take as much time to finish one L4 mission as it would take for 6 L3 missions, on a simple EHP level.

Do you have a weblink to those charts?
Thank you.

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You know, this comment right here shows why I’m not going to bother replying to the rest of your post.

A Raven with 2 rigors, 1 guidance computer and 3 balistic controls will do 567 dps with a volley damage of 3910 with precision missiles. With an explosion radius of 133m and 145m/s velocity. That also leaves the Raven with 6 mids, 2 lows and a rig spot left.

Your drake, using furies, does 427 dps with a volley damage of 2974, radius of 181 and a velocity of 106m/s. The target painter you’re using as your only application boost has a range of 54km for optimal, but you’re saying you fight well beyond that, so I doubt it’s adding much to the radius.

Faction ammo is somewhat better application but worse DPS. Either way, no, it’s not better than the Raven at killing cruisers, certainly not double. You trying to fudge the numbers and present terrible comparisons doesn’t change that fact.

The drake has 84km range , the painter +90 to falloff so 84km is 30/90 in the falloff, so at worst the painter has 79.4% efficiency ( = 0.5 ^( (85-54) / 90) ).

I’m pretty sure those numbers are wrong, I let you correct me.

They’re running a sensor script in their command module to give them greater range than that.

Either way, even with perfect application, it’s giving +37.5%, which still only brings a 125m cruiser up to 171m. Which is still low application for the furies unbuffed explosion velocity.

Edit: I haven’t googled the formula for it, so you could very well be right on the efficiency of it fella :slight_smile:

The formula is good (for a target smaller, the increase in DPS is basically the increase in sig radius, with the efficiency provided)

It’s just that I don’t have the correct numbers for falloff/optimal. Logged in a toon :
TP T2 is 50.4+135km for 37.5 increase so at range 110 the damage increase is 37.5×0.5^( (110-50.4)/135 ) = +27.6% DPS

Don’t know if that’s useful to know though :stuck_out_tongue: .

First make sure you’re using the correct ammunition against the right enemy .

Determine your attack range and select the appropriate missile launchers in between assault Lancers or heavy Lancers ,
if you are able to use tech 2 alternate in between the two US needed .
Attack the groups of your enemies separately one at a time don’t provoke them all at once unless you can take them on ,
Usually they’re not going to attack you all at once if you have small spaceship most likely your ammunition will not provoke them that much ,
Mission are all about tactics sends you know your enemy in advance you can prepare appropriately , I did level 4 missions on a daredevil spinning around them like a firing devil missing me here missing me there causing them panic all over there. :joy::partying_face::boom: Good luck prepare appropriately and you do the mission no problem

dunno whether i shall bother replying then.

It has, with precision script loaded, which is how it gets 145m/s explosion velocity and 148m explotion radius,

It uses Caldari Navy Scourges though at 108km range, where the sensors are the range limiting factor, so it has 105m explotion radius and 128m/s explotion velocity, while the the target painter has a 37.5% bonus which is 25% more then a scripted guidance computer, and at 108km, i.e. effective max range, the falloff effect reduced it to have “only”

bloom_effect * 0.5 ^ ( ( max(0, distance - optimal_range) / falloff_range) ^ 2)

= 37.5% * 0.5 ^ ( ((108km-54km)/135km) ^ 2 )
= 33.6% 

signature blooming effect, which still adds more damage application then a precision scripted guidance computer. These effects synergize to to yield the lower dps of the drake applying significantly better then the precision cruises, so the seemingly significanlty higher dps of the precision raven practically means 5% more damage on a cruiser by the raven over the drake.

Of cause, just as the DC is the worst item to fit because it has 0.2% less ehp/s repair to the PD and the caracal worth of additional ehp the DC provides a drake over a PD doesn’t compensate the 0.2%, these 5% decide about playability of the fit. Even then, following your rhetoric, a guidance computer is the worst item to put into a mid, because hardly any T1 ship can shoot farther then the TP blooming effect is superior over precision scripted computers.
The T2 afterburner, which I claimed wasn’t worth the additional ISK over the meta variants, btw, reduces incoming damage by more then 0.2% over the meta, yet noone contested my claim that it wasn’t worth the isk.

The numbers and the formula, too :wink:
The falloff of a target painter, with frequency modulation maxed out, is 135km, not 90km. Further, the term containing it needs to be squared.

This line in the PyFA source code evaluates the falloff effect to application for any range between optimal and optimal + 3*falloff .