My t2 fit legion cost me about 1.5b and the hull was only 400m. You want to get those skills to 5 as it is a short train with good bonus. You just want to play it safe, also most of my corp mates train their t3c skills to 5. So yeah, many.
VNI’s can easily reach 800 dps…
Nah, its the cost efficiency.
And yes the ship itself(ishtar) is a lot better as a drone boat, so why would anyone pay more for something less. Also in a fleet the survivability with the assault dmg control is sick.
On a side note the stratios is even straight up just better than the drone proteus…
I dunno how a t2 fit legion can cost 1.5b, might want to show the fit. Skills to 4 is a very short train and losing a tiny bit of the bonuses is much better than losing a level 5 skill
Also with max skills and 4 dda’s a vni can reach 750 dps, so you’d need to bling ■■■■ to get to 800. 550 dps was with 2 t2 dda’s on the prot, if you bling it you can get higher numbers too
In what? Maybe as a cloaky hunter, but that’s just the niche that the stratios fits. Again, any defensive subsystem other than the covert one on the prot gives it much higher tank than the stratios.
I agree that the cloaky drone proteus isn’t that great, but that’s just one specific combination
Then don’t fly with level 5 skills? Like i said, if you want it to be cheaper you can always go with level 4 skills. Price and bonuses don’t scale linearly
Opinions vary. The brick tanked prot is ok, the double rep one on the other hand is kinda crap even with its rep sub cause PG / cap is crap for it on prot to have an overall decent fit.
Cloaky blaster prot is the only thing that is OK, and that is just OK. To be fair if you get caught by any cloaky at short range that does 1k DPS you’re pretty much screwed, it doesn’t have to be blasters or prot. You can do same in Loki or Tengu or very close to it but both Loki and Tengu surpass Prot in tank and utility while doing so.
Loki is way over the top, Tengu is actually OK and I think considering SP loss on ship death on T3Cs exactly where it should be, Legion is situationally very good especially in some WHs but sucks otherwise, but Prot, especially drone prot sucks major ass kinda everywhere except cloaky blaster jumping targets.
Loki is OP and does deserve a nerf.
Legion have selectable damage types, it’s a good cloaky hunter
Cloaky rail proteus aren’t terrible
Drone prot can easily clear 10/10s, the only reason people aren’t using them in fleets is because ishtars exist and are drone prots but better and cheaper
Yeah, and by improving its capability in PvP(by perhaps giving it a mid slot), it shouldn’t really make it much better at doing 10/10s. Anyway, my point is that it is a decent PvE setup, I just wish it would be on pair with the stratios at least for PvP.
Maybe if you dropped a lowslot then you could give it a midslot. Again, cloaky drone prots are terrible but that’s just one specific combination, i feel like for pvp drone prots are pretty powerful, it’s just nobody uses it because of the better alternative. It’s just like why we don’t see autocannon loki fleets and instead see muninns, or how we don’t see rapid light tengu fleets and instead see cerbs.
And your ratting vni can have no more than 30k ehp, that’s paper thin. A proteus with 500 dps can easily hit 90k ehp
Edit:
Just checked pyfa, it’s 550 dps and 112k ehp with a full t2 fit and subverted drones
Didnt mention tank, but for pve applications the tank comes from the high transversal and a single t2 armor rep. For pvp it’s a lot tougher but only does ~650dps, and that Includes two blasters. The only thing that’s scary about taking on a t3c in that vni is the very high probability of getting dropped on. Otherwise I’d bet on it in most 1v1s. It’s also been my experience that you can just align out in your rating vni and outrun the t3c while it face tanks ogres. It will either be 100mn fit, and you’ll die or it will warp/die.
They are strong, but not the best at everything by any means.
Exactly, that’s the point. This whole thread is about how it’s not strong enough for pvp. It’s plenty strong enough, the only reason that we don’t see fleets of proteus nowadays is because the ishtar is a cheaper and better alternative, as it should be.
Also, at some point the OP wanted cloaky drone proteus to be better than the stratios at cloaky hunting? Sure, one specific configuration doesn’t work that well for the proteus but that’s just collateral damage
Agreed, they are strong enough. In the right hands they are downright deadly. They can hardly expect it to be #1 cruiser in all it’s possible roles though right?
You don’t really sound like a guy who knows what he’s talking about, my dude. Are you really sure your feedback is needed on this subject?
Because for all your claims and pyfa warrioring, the Proteus activity remains focused on weak niches (tackling industrials under sentry guns, smartbombing pods) and inside empire space, whereas its counterparts such as Loki and Legion are frequently used as support or mainline ships, are good cloaky hunters, show up in response fleets and form the backbone of blops gangs. I don’t know much about Proteus except for that it’s slow beyond salvation, but when both general consensus and practical application is underwhelming, it’s pointless to argue otherwise.
Also interesting is your “nerf all ships” approach to things. Yes, the Loki may be strong, but what exactly about it upsets the overall game balance? It doesn’t step on the toes of the Minmatar T2 lineup either, in any of its roles. What’s the point of taking a good ship and bringing it down to an underwhelming standard, instead of raising the standard to the level of the ship?
If you are trolling, consider me baited and well done, but if you are not, please refrain from expressing an uninformed opinion until you gain a better understanding of the subject.
I think this image explains it all, t3 aren’t supposed to outperform their t2 or pirate counterparts.
The op is clearly asking for the cloaky drone combination to be buffed, but that effectively replaces the stratios. So in order to satisfy his whims, i’m merely proposing that if all cloaky t3c’s (except the prot) were nerfed, then people wouldn’t favour cloaky arty lokies over cloaky drone prots
TL;DR
proteus is fine as is, and if you’re going to come up with a shitty idea expect others to do the same
That graphic is fairly outdated, T3 usually outperforms navy and T2 stands toe to toe with pirate. In fact, one could say T2 is more about improvement whereas pirate relies on some sort of special feature (point range, cloak, web strength, speed, afterburner, capacitor warfare) to compete. Just because the general idea remains the same, doesn’t mean adjustments can’t be made on the long run.
Before the nerf, cloaky drone Proteus (alongside all other cloaky T3Cs) was a better alternative to Stratios, albeit more expensive and skill intensive. The Stratios has its own perks, it’s a ■■■■■ to defang, versatile to the point of being a sort of T3C-lite, requires little SP and ISK investment. Saying cloaky drone Proteus replaces Stratios is like saying Ishtar replaces VNI.
No it’s not, but I don’t intend to keep going back and forth on this with you, so whatever.
Yes, right now it’s wrong and that’s the problem. If a ship that can do anything can outperform a specialist or a ship with a “special feature”, why would you even bother using any other ships? Let’s say you had an AB bonus to the legion that would make it faster than sansha ships, why bother using sansha ships ever?
