Look, I realize that the players who want to kill everything hate some fitting that stops them from doing that …but what are you doing. Sometimes you need to try to make the game fits as realistic as possible and stay with real world physics as a basis. Jamming a ship or several ships should always work for the ship doing the jamming. The counter fit for this is to increase ones targeting power with already existing fittings for that purpose… You had this right before caving to the cry-babies that it was “un-fair” to them. After spending a lot of training time to use the ECMs and Jammers, you now take away the reason I was training. Again, You had it right before the Oct change…not it’s just unrealistic and wrong. Every pilot has to make hard choices in fitting their ship…changing this fitting area to appease those who just don’t want to change their own fittings to overcome a jammer is frankly unfair to those who sacrifice their own tanking and offensive fit enhancement to accomplish the jammer role. In the real world, Jamming is of MOST benefit to the jammer…of all those you could make the jamming useless to, you chose to make it useless to the jammer. What a joke! This player is not happy with this change. Those who are jammed have, in the past, had many other options…they were never trapped and unable to do anything any more that a ship being unable to war because of warp disruptions…“If it isn’t broke, DON"T FIX IT”. Time for those who call everyone else a “carebear” to man or woman up and deal with it. Jammer and ECM fittings always came with a limited ranges…Moving out of the range of the jammer and assaulting the jamming ship from a distance always worked in the past…so just how was it “un-fair” to someone encountering a Jammer???
While I agree with you that this change seems nonsensical (and hilariously mothballs a faction frigate built entirely around solo brawling with ECM tank), I am curious to hear what these “many options” are that aren’t “have a friend kill the jammer” or “fit ECCM and pray to RNGsus”.
Problematically, it’s hard to think of a change to ECM that allows it to reliably apply, deals with complaints about it having no interesting counterplay, but keeps it from being a GTFO module. As much as I dislike this change, I’m hard-pressed to think of a better alternative.
I think jamming the way it is is ok, I just think that dedicated jammers could not be implied with the new targeting rule. think that should be fair to both sides
If that were actually the case, then EvE had already failed on the first day.
Spaceships in EvE do not move the way they do without breaking the laws of physics.
While I very much love the concept of playing EvE as an escape, and want to immerse myself as much as possible, it is still a game. What makes a good simulation does not necessarily make a good game.
So it wasn’t 100% safe therefore it didn’t work.
Just like high sec eh?
How is I jam someone and it 100% NEVER works fair?
huum, true that don’t make sense indeed
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make with that response. You seem to be assuming what side of this I’m on. I’ll clarify that I think this ECM change is inadequate. But CCP seems to feel that a change must be made, but if this is the change they wish to implement, I’d rather they just leave ECM alone.
I admit up front that I am not overly familiar with ECM play and counterplay, so I was asking what these many options OP claims exist were and how realistic they are. I just listed the two methods that most immediately come to my inexperienced mind.
Until now I didn’t realize that you need a target lock in the real world to shoot someone.
If I was being picky I’d say technically you do for shipborne turrets and missiles (nearest RL equivalent). But RL has nothing to do with EvE thankfully.
Well maybe then we can all agree that using real word physics as an argument is completely stupid and just shows that no actual argumemt about why the mechanic should not have changed was made.
some take the “real world physics” too literal…of course there are differences here…but where possible, physics should apply for realistic game play… for others…to counter an ECM you can move your ship out of range and still kill the jamming ship (before the change)…to say there were no counter measures is unimaginative.
some take the “real world physics” too literal…of course there are differences here…but where possible, physics should apply for realistic game play… for others…to counter an ECM you can move your ship out of range and still kill the jamming ship (before the change)…or you can could get close in and use smart bombs or auto targeting missiles…to say there were no counter measures is unimaginative.
This must be the angry player who couldn’t adapt by making his range greater than his opponents so he could jam them and they couldn’t shoot him back.
So time to poke little holes in your boat.
1- ECM in real life is not flawless. There is a counter to active jammers called HOME ON JAMMING, or HOJ mode for most missiles today. An AIM-120C AMRAAM can HOJ on an enemy aircraft that is actively jamming. It will actually switch modes in flight if the jamming takes out its primary radar guidance and just home on the source of the jamming.
2- ECM would be useless against 3 of the sensor systems used in game.
ECM in game is not broken now… if anything you just have to adapt to the changes…
I have already built ship builds that can use jammers in solo and fleet operations that will work. But like all EWAR ships they are made of paper and have the staying power of a virgin in a brothel.
The thing is with EWAR you should have never been able to solo. I am an EWAR pilot I have high skills in ALL of the EWAR systems. And can fly all of the factions EWAR frigates. I have always found the Griffin and the GNI lacking, even with ECM. Honestly sensor damps and weapon disruptors are by far more powerful in solo and in fleet operations because of the nature of their EWAR.
Angry wall of text spotted.
Well as usual Eve changes are stupid and missed the boat. The first and most obvious change should have been to remove RNG from jamming.
Hardly anything in the game is real world physics. Dude, stop with the nonsense.
There are two enormous threads dealing with this very issue where the means to counterplay ECM have been brought up repeatedly. They fall into two broad categories. The first involves fitting solutions, and the other involves piloting solutions.
Fittingwise, you can use smartbombs + prop mod to rush and smash an ECM ship. Likewise you can be missile fit and load Auto-Targeting missiles. Other options including using a MJD to get out of range of the jamming ship exist as well. Fitting a scripted sensor booster more than halves their existing chance to jam you, and their ships are incredibly fragile if they are fit for the kind of jam strength that can reliably jam a t1 cruiser.
Pilotingwise, you can burn out of range of the jammers weapons and/or jamming modules. You can perform a point to point warp, either to another point on grid or to a celestial. Doing this will immediately break the jam. Obviously these require a little bit of skill and thought.
Obviously, many counters can, themselves, be countered. And there are some counters for those counters as well. Mainly though, the issue has been that people don’t want to compromise otherwise DPS/Tank fit ships to fit a sensor booster or two.
Possible solutions other than what has been done include shortening the cycle and jam duration of ECM modules so they don’t lock a person down (And the jammer doesn’t get locked out by bad rolls) for as long. Other spitballing includes allowing ships to fire “blind” at unlocked targets with massive accuracy penalties. Making ECM land an increasing debuff to your maximum locked targets until you are completely jammed after a few cycles, etc. Wide variety of possibilities, but all evidence indicates that this was not a well thought through change, and more a brain fart that they followed with great enthusiasm blind to the consequences.
I mean, hells, Structure ECM is confirmed to work the same way as ship based ECM at the moment, so if your Astrahus is defending itself with jammers, it actually isn’t.