and in case you were wondering the scorp lock range is 135km so i even gave you a bonus over that 80 you said was impossible
ofc this is just silly as a single damp on a BB (also shown) with a scan res script causes it to take 40s to lock another BB and over a minute and a half to lock a frig so generally its best to just go with those when the lock range is long
That screen shot doesn’t show anything? only empty modules and that a arazu is damping there is no lock range anywhere on your pic.
Let me do it for you since you have no idea what your posting:
I cant fly the arazu but the keres has very similar stats so using that (both 7.5% effectiveness per level)
1 damp is -46%
My vagabond locks to 87.5km’s
So 1 damp: 87.5-46% = 47.25
2 damps 47.25 - 46% = 25.5
3 damps 25.5 - 46% = 13.7
4 damps 13.7 - 46% = 7.4
5 damps 7.4 - 46% = 4
6 damps 4 - 46% = 2.1
Arazu only has 6 mids who would fit no prop mod no long point that its bonus’ed for, just to fit 6 damps? your crazy. Overheating doesn’t last long either so cant really factor that in.
Also with only 4 damps that 7.5 lock range is plenty to sling shot a scramming frig into range and blap it. Also your forgetting your arazu will more than likely be in fall off range for the first bit of the fight which lowers the effectiveness of the e-war even more.
no idea how the forums ■■■■■■ that up
the lock range here is only being effected by 3 damps scan res by a 4th the araz then has a prop and scram in its last two mids
not the araz scramming over 20km off though.
i love how you claim i don’t know what i’m doing. you are fitting meta not T2 you also completely forgot about damp rigs. either you are being intentionally dishonest or you really are clueless
Oop’s yea your right damn, was an old fit havn’t flown in it in awhile.
not your falt, ECM is a meme so everyone knows it but people forget about the other E-war and don’t realize how strong it is.
normally i turn to point out WD they are imho much stronger than damps on any DPS ship as it takes far few to completely neuter a ship. but in these threads people just like to point out that you can still use other mods and how its not the same even though it does leave you effectively useless if your role is damage.
you also have ECM being much harder to fly well in an actual fight. unlike most ewar its not lock ship activate. you always want has few jams cycling as you can and you are constantly battling weather or not to use heat
I personally prefer using dampeners over ECMs, but thats just because I really like Celestis and Lachesis much better then their ECM counterpart ships.
As for ECMs, I would like Auto Targeting Computers to partially counter ECM. Currently their only active use is for AFK ratting and botting, kinda. Most people that fit them do it just for the passive + targets bonus.
IMHO they should pierce and work vs ECMs and Dampeners. You still won’t be able to choose your target as the module will do it for you, you will still be subject to the range limitations and cycle time of the module, but being able to target something, would be far, far better then not being able to target anything.
It takes up a high slot so a lot of the times there would be a trade off. In 1 vs 1 combat it would still be balanced since it would work only vs ECM users, while have no bearing vs anyone else.
CCP could also provide more sensor strength across variety of modules that affect sensors. This would help a bit, exact numbers would need to be tested and determined.
So there is quite a lot of play and counter play that could and should be done in this area, I don’t understand why its not in the game.
ECM is a feature from the games beginning. People will treat it like some sacred calf, one of the 4 pillars of EWAR that the game simply cannot live without. Then they get jammed at 5km and die like a bitch while not having any hope at all of getting out of it.
The problem with fitting ECCM is if your not being jammed its seriously weakening your fit, if only sensor strength had an effect against all types of e-war, it will at the same time give t2 ships something different to pirate ship’s making them better at certain situations.
Yes they do help against damp’s as well but because of the calculations a % reduction to effectiveness is much better than an initial targeting range before the loss’s as Lugh Crow-Slave has pointed out showing a ship that has 120 range going down to 2.
One could argue that a sebo affects 2 different kinds of ewar but I say that’s B.S. for this reason:
damps is the counter to sebo,
sebo is the counter to ECM
you fit a damp if you know the enemy will be sniping
you fit a sebo if you know the enemy has ECM
and that’s before you even talk about ships with merely 2 midslots or 3 midslots and active tanking bonuses. oh boy I don’t envy those people.
Let’s not forget that ECM bounsed ships have absolutely no space for a respectable tank compared to there counter parts.
@Lugh_Crow-Slave imagen every ship received a 0.75% linear reduction to e-war effectiveness per sensor strength, that means t2 ships with their 24 sensor strength will have an initial 18.75% e-war reduction, its not much so ships without eccm will still be very vulnerable to e-war. Now add 1 eccm to that ship and your up to 43-44 around which is 32.5% which will handle itself a lot easier against some e-war ships.
Adding more will obviously increase e-war resistance a lot more but realistically adding more than 1 eccm per ship will gimp that ship for combat.
For example using that same vagabond:
starting stats 87.5km’s
24.5 sensor strength
Adding 1 sentient signal amp will change the stats to:
117.25km lock range
37 sensor strength
37x 0.75 =
27.5% e-war reduction
Please correct me if im wrong Lugh Crow-Slave but arazu damp effectiveness should be something like 53% or something?
53%-27.5%
100-27.5 = 72.5
so 53x0.72 = 38.16% damp effectiveness after e-war reduction.
so starting from max lock range of 117.25
100-38.16 = 61.84 damp effectiveness multiple.
1 damp = 117.25 x 0.6184 = 72.5
2 damp = 72.5 x 0.6184 = 44.8
3 damp = 44.8 x 0.6184 = 27.7
4 damp = 27.7 x 0.6184 = 17.1
Seems a lot more viable than having 2km’s lol 
depends on how many jams you expect to fit. A typical jammer might 2 or 3, depending on needs.
[Griffin, Griffin fit]
Damage Control II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
BZ-5 Scoped Gravimetric ECM
Enfeebling Scoped Ladar ECM
Hypnos Scoped Magnetometric ECM
Small Shield Extender II
5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor II
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
this griffin has 4k ehp which is about the same ehp a typical incursis has (bearing in mind an incursis is running reps and not necessarily worried about having so much ehp).
… no your are fixing a non-existent problem E-war is fine as it is. those ships are working as intended they are effective force multipliers. They reward groups that are organized and working together. there is nothing overpowered about one ship removing another from the grid in this way. All of the E-war can be countered both on grid and before the fight.
you want more resistance to damps or ecm fit a sebo, resistance to WD fit tracking computers.
That’s the thing they reward larger number’s only with no counter play.
no they are THE ONLY THING that lets small groups fight larger ones.
without things like E-war command bursts, and logistics eve would literally become N+1. these things reword organization planning and teamwork. there is a reason you tend to see e-war far more proportionally in small/med size gangs than large ones
Hate to break it to you, but that fit won’t tank 4k. You got to remember most people fighting are either using lasers or hybrids, so em/thermal will shred through your tank. Ken/therm to a lesser extent.
Edit; also that’s a terrible fit, whoever told you that’s the standard lied. Your missing a racial jam so you might as well fit multi.
Topic moved on over to the Player Features and Ideas discussion forum.
minmatar sensor strength is the lowest of the bunch. not everyone has those sensor strength skills trained either. remember what I said earlier about multiple nerfs to ECM directly and indirectly? This was one of them.
A thrasher with no sp invested in ladar compensation has a ss of 9. If he has all 5 its 10.8.
Suppose you swap the ladar for a multispec you gain some extra jamming power vs amarr and caldari but the RNG nature means anything under 1:1 is not guaranteed to work.
At any rate, it was merely to serve as an example, and 3x 25% chances to knock out a thrasher is adequate, with multispec its a bit higher but the ladar would be 100% chance almost for thrasher. Even a svipul with a single ladar ecm is eating a 75% chance to jam. once again that assumes he has it at all 5 or even plugged in, there would be plenty of players these days with no clue at all about this skill and might only train it to level 2.
its taken for granted that everyone knows everything but the game is bloated with press-Q, f1 and overheat guns and reps for the win type people.
You can still armor tank?
You do know that sensor dampeners are stacking penalized right?
The way that penalized modules work is that after 3 mods it’s below 20% effectiveness and your dampener number 6 will do 1% of 46% effectiveness, so you are better of fitting something else.
You didn’t even use the dampener rigs…
