EDENCOM loyalties

Continuing the discussion from Regarding RSS and illegal arrests:

Ok, wow. A bit of paying attention and…

Not only is she a sworn supporter of the Amarr Empire, but the name’s not a coincidence either. She was actually born Valkarir, as in the Nefantar Chief, esteemed Eleca Valkanir. When her clan defected, she cut her ties to her own kin in order to remain an Amarr loyalist. This makes her not just a CONCORD officer who happens to be born and raised in the Empire, but an actual honest-to-God collaborator traitor by choice.

Oh and as a cherry on top, of course she’s also a Battle of Tears veteran.

Trust Edencom to protect the civilization from invaders? Whose civilization, exactly? Which invaders?

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Sounds to me like the defectors in her clan were the traitors. Provost Marshal Valkanir remained loyal to her home and her Faith.

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Of course that’s what it sounds to you, who have no concept of loyalty to kin and freedom first.

This person deliberately chose the Amarr Empire when she had the chance to leave the Mandate without consequence, and she made what to a Minmatar is pretty much the ultimate sacrifice, in cutting herself off from her clan. That does indeed speak of unwavering loyalty to “her Faith” - not just her religion, which many in the Republic follow too, but her Faith and her nation.

So, she is not just a CONCORD career officer who is Amarrian-born by Lady Luck’s choice at birth - which would be distasteful, but CONCORD career officers inevitably are born somewhere, so what can you do - she is an actual honest-to-God Amarrian loyalist who has chosen, and likely then will choose her Empire before her kin.

And that’s not just distasteful, that’s extremely suspicious. We are supposed to trust this person to represent all the four nation states and to bring us together, yet we know for a fact that given the choice, she will forsake her own blood to serve the Amarr.

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So the problem is that she’s a loyalist?
So what do you propose?

Should nobody provably loyal to their nation, no matter how qualified, get to hold any CONCORD positions that have some effect on all of the nations? I feel that most if not all of the people best suited for the job are going to have a military background and therefore are very likely to also be loyal to their respective nations.

Don’t you run into this problem that you’re seeing with any loyalist?

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I believe I answered this already.

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I honestly don’t see how that answers the question.

We would be suspicious of a Republic loyalist in the position.
Many Gallente would be suspicious of a Caldari loyalist and vice-versa.

All loyalists are well… loyal to their empire, right?

I’m not trying to be intentionally obtuse. Honest.
I understand why you’d distrust an Amarr loyalist, but is there really a different level of distrust for her than any other Amarr loyalist? I understand that she severed ties with her clan when they defected, but If your clan defected in the other direction, would you just follow? Any Amarr loyalist is going to have a bias in favor of the Empire in the same way loyalists of other nations would have biases towards their nations. Is she really more biased than an ethnic Amarr, Ni-Kunni, or Khanid Empire loyalist would be?

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I cannot honestly say if I would. I really hope I am never asked to make that choice, though given how the cluster is evolving, it’s not completely out off the realm of possibility I will live long enough to see that.

If I did, however, I’d certainly not expect to hold a position where I have any authority over the defense of my free tribe, ever again.

To give this some context, traditionally, where I come from, the honorable way out of a serious irreconcilable conflict of loyalty is suicide. While these days people mostly live it through, and I personally definitely cannot call anyone out for not taking the way of the knife, the solution certainly is not continuing in a position of authority where you’d attempt to serve both.

An… “uncomplicated” Amarr loyalist, someone born Amarr but having dedicated their whole career to CONCORD, someone without the reputation of unwavering duty to Faith, someone who does not have a track record of leaving their kin to defend the Empire, yes, that would be distasteful. We could, however, at least hope and assume that when the hard choices need to be made, she’d serve CONCORD first, and the nations equally.

This is a person who has demonstrated what she will choose. She is not just an Amarr loyalist, she is a collaborator-by-choice.

So, yes, it is different.

And no, I do not expect you or any outsider to understand it. Likely some paper-pusher at CONCORD thought her the perfect choice because “hey a cousin of a Chief, the Minmatar like their cousins right”.

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I’m never going to see eye to eye with you, but you explained your position well.

I think I understand what you mean a bit better now. So thanks for your time.

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Or maybe she was chosen because she is a proven soldier that the people doing the majority of the fighting can trust to do her duty to the job.

Amarr is, after all, taking the brunt of the fighting against this new threat. Just like the Empire took the brunt of the war against the Drifters. It’s imperative that Amarr be able to trust EDENCOM. After Amarr, she needs to be acceptable to the Gallente and the Caldari, neither of whom suscribe to the Matari ideas of tribal loyalty.

By contrast, the Matari leadership came into power by an act of anti-CONCORD terrorism. It is a travesty that Shakor’s Tribal Oligarchy has been allowed to replace the Republic as a member of CONCORD and the Tribal Oligarchy’s opinion on this matter should be ignored as it is both the weakest state and it is a rogue nation that has launched underhanded attacks on CONCORD, Amarr, and even the Federation without the nicety of a declaration of war.

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Thank you for kindly confirming what I expected.

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EDENCOM are worrying, as is their involvement with the Upwell Consortium, numerous hidden facilities across New Eden, surveillance operations and intrusions into unknown areas of Abyssal space. They obviously have the support and backing of some of the Empires but we still don’t know if there is an underlying agenda. I agree with Elsebeth, Valkanir may well turn out to be untrustworthy, not because of her past but because of who she represents. We really don’t want to see the creation of some kind of authoritarian police state as that would erode the freedoms of all the citizens of New Eden as much as being under Triglavian control.

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Underlying agenda or not, EDENCOM is the way forward if we are to maintain any semblance of our current lives at all. To underestimate the threat we’re facing right now, is to practically surrender to the triangles.

Arguing which Empire the Provost Marshal may be loyal to? You’ll be glad to have any Empires still standing at the end of this, if there will in fact be an end at all. Let’s worry about hidden agendas when we’re allowed the luxury. If that plays into their hands, so bet it. Better theirs than the triangles’ or those of whatever threat rears their ugly head next.

The U.P.S.E.T. Corporation will fight against the triangles regardless of who is in charge of EDENCOM or whatever other defensive organization is formed for the same purpose.

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Death before slavery and never again another long night?

EDIT: What I say is what I say. You’ll notice if I speak for any of the organizations I might represent.

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As far as I got it, she was born Ammatar, that means she couldn’t be considered neither as traitor, nor collaborator.
After all, she doesn’t collaborate with Shakorites, am I rigt?
She doesn’t side with the aggressive invaders from the Republic and stays loyal to her home and authorities, protecting the Empire and Mandate from foreign invaders, would be that Triglavians, and, I hope… from invading Minmatar as well.

As for the collaboration, however… I’d actually suspicious of her and the EDENCOM initiative, as it’s pretty much clear they do commit collaboration with Gallente scum.

You fear being a slave to the followers of God, yet you seem indifferent to become a slave to those wretched creatures from that godless, hellish abyss of theirs. Prioritize your fears, or escaping Amarrian slavery may be the only wish you’re granted.

Now is the time to band together, not fight amongst ourselves. The price of hatred against any Empire will be to see your own burn at the hands of the invaders, ready and willing to take advantage of your misdirected anger.

Very typical Amarr; “you should submit to us because otherwise it’ll be even worse”.

How about at third option where EDENCOM is ran by people whose main selling point is their unwavering support to humanity, not that to the Amarr?

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Perhaps we should ask the Sisters of EVE if they have anyone with decades of active military service that would be relevant to the current crisis.

Oh, wait. Humanitarians generally do not wage war.

Well, besides you.

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Typical Amarrophobic Minmatar, more like it. We’re pretty much letting you have your little Empire and here you are, distracting yourself from the actual threats to it.

While some few followers of the Faith may be more inclined to take you all back than I am personally, I promise you, you have much more to fear from the thrice-damned abyssal-folk than you do from any of us.

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Slightly difficult argument to make as we are threatening to Reclaim the Minmatar CEWPA warzone worlds. We are indeed a threat to them, and they are a threat to us. We will have to first disarm our distrust before we may properly cooperate against the Triglavian threat.

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Except my anger is directed towards The Invaders and our ancient enemy, that really behaves like enemy of the whole Mankind. EDENCOM got their priorities wrong. It’s not Triglavians who are the largest threat to civilized life of New Eden. It’s the Gallente Federation.