Ahem.
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You totally are. I saw it. You toted.
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A question for you, Mitara:
The Empire was instrumental in establishing the CEWPA warzones through CONCORD.
The Empire continues to support the continuation of the CEWPA wars.
If the Empire wanted the wars to end, it could put pressure on CONCORD to invalidate the CEWPA wars and either finalize the current status of all systems involved, or restore those systems to their pre-CEWPA status.
As it has not done this, the Empire clearly endorses the activity within the CEWPA warzonesâall of it. The Empire isnât alone in this, after all. The Republic, Federation, and State are all in the same position: if their opposition in the âwarzoneâ were to vanish, the Empireâs ability to use the warzone to keep loyalist capsuleers close at need, but safely channeling their efforts in a way that doesnât threaten the wider stability of the cluster.
This means the Empire gives tacit (a case could be made for explicit) support to not only the warzone efforts of PIE, but also of Electus Matari. With this co-dependent structure in the warzones in mind, how can you call engaging in the CEWPA âanti-Imperialâ? Yes, theyâve attacked Imperial-aligned assets in the warzone. Thatâs why the Empire put those assets there for.
That is literally why the Empire keeps supporting the CEWPA: to keep not only Imperial loose cannons contained, but also to keep Matari efforts contained. So if EM shooting the designated targets the Empire sets up for them to shoot at, theyâre doing exactly what the Empire wants them doing (wasting their time in the CEWPA bloodsport). How exactly is doing what the Empire wants them doing âanti-Imperialâ?
Itâs a bit like saying that if I were to throw a banquet, and you attended and drank some of my mead, your actions are somehow an aggressive and hostile act. Youâre doing what I want you to do. Youâre consuming the thing I put there for you to consume. Thatâs hardly an attack, even if the end result is I no longer have that mead.
The CEWPA warzones are nothing but a massive buffet. Any assets one of the empires holds in there, they want to have shot at⌠or theyâd get CONCORD to make it off-limits.
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Youâre overreaching.
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Sheâs partially right, but also ignores that to the participants in question, the intent behind the participation do matter in spite of the pendulum pretense being nonsense in the first place.
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Iâm really not. IHUBs blow up, new IHUBs get put down. Personnel come and go. The Empire keeps sending assets in knowing that those assets will get blown up, even if thereâs no firm timetable.
Am I saying âthe Empire wants Abbadons to blow upâ? No. Iâm saying âthe Empire wants EM shooting targets in the warzone, not Domain.â
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She is partially right, certainly. But sheâs making grand claims about what is and is not truth about a war she has never actually fought in. She is focusing on the conflicts specifically between capsuleers and the fights over system infrastructure, and acting like thatâs all there is. The war is an utter mess, certainly, but it does have some real impacts to local interests.
I and plenty of other militia pilots have been sent to destroy Republic outposts (not capture; destroy) and material convoys, and I know there are agents that have sent capsuleers after civilian transports. Baseliner fleets engage each other and there has been planetside conflicts over military facilities. No faction in the conflict is putting those things in space just to get them shot at. These things are already in space, and being used for legitimate national interests, and negotiations between the four empires determined which of these assets are and are not valid targets for capsuleer militia pilots. And none of the empires can go and arbitrarily get CONCORD to make something off-limits - the rules of war are established and changing those rules is not something any one empire can do on a whim.
The war is absolutely pointless, because for all of this conflict there is no victory or lose condition, and occupations change too regularly for anyone to make any real progress in holding territory. But to act like the assets are just toys is a vast understatement. Amarr does not want the Republic to shoot them, just like the Republic does not want the Amarr to shoot their own assets. But as part of the rules of this war, these assets are considered acceptable targets. These are regional military and economic interests that are affected by the war. These are the only things that the war actually affects, yes, but they are not worthless.
Itâs certainly seemed that way.
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Of course, but I think you over-estimate the reasons for these ancillary operations. They occur, I believe, simply as opportunities grasped damn near by accident rather than being any kind of goal or concerted effort. Of course, I could be wrong here⌠but letâs face it, how often does that really happen?
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Most likely, yes.
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No, itâs not. Those assets are just toys to the empires. You say theyâre there for âlegtimate national purposesâ, but the only national purpose in the CEWPA warzone is the continuance of the CEWPA fighting. And thatâs there because the empires want loyalist capsuleers kept busy in a controlled manner. Thatâs it. Iâm sorry, Samira, but no, the empires donât care about the people they send in there to die. They donât care about any of it. If they did, they wouldnât have designed that meat-grinder to be unwinnable.
They donât care about those people, and they donât care about the capsuleers, either, except as potential weapons they want to keep handy.
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Why is this thread receiving a discussion of philosophical matters or legal matters at all?
It was declaration of my investigation on behalf of my glorious alliance. I did not offered you a topic to discuss, but solid resaults of neutral investigation.
If you have proof against EM you are free to bring them up here. If you agree with the resaults, let it be known. If you dont have say at all, be silent.
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Oh, so tempting.
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I have made no such an accusation.
I do most certainly and vehemently disagree.
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You are wrong then.
I have lived with EM and talked with them. If we leave this stupid militia war away, they are like cornered beasts. They are afraid. Their strategic experts are no less qualified than ours are and they can very well count odds when it come our Empire population superiority, territorial superiority, industrial superiority and even stability compared to them and their young republic.
They have however managed to create strong deterrent army that would at the best resault somehow pyrrhic victory to us if we go to war.
We should give them more room to breathe. It is very easy to done without sacrificing anything our Empire has gained.
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I actually agree with that assessment.
But they still would try to kill us if they could, and still do on occasion.
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Hmm, resource superior enemy, no reason to take pot shots, no reason what so ever to display how far we are willing to go for self determination and our right to exist.
Your smarter than this, we gain more of a garrantee by showing our force of will then playing nice with a people who have attacked us unprovoked before.
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With respect, if our both Empires would go to war economy, your war time economy would be less than our peace time economy.
I think youâll find these last centuries of development and preparation will prove rather costly for any attempted invasion. Your slow and brutish fleets will swing wildly and hit smoke and mirrors, while constantly bleeding a river from countless cuts of the dagger. Supply lines constantly accosted by those who have spent decades and more learning how to silently navigate your worlds and extracting our kin from them.
Itâd be bloody, thatâs for sure. Worlds would be lost to the golden fleets in orbit, taking out their frustration on targets that canât laugh coldly and avoid the clumsy barbarism, and yet every world would have to be burned to the ground to end the fights and only further fuel the fury that burns brighter than any zeal.
War time economy? I wonder how much of that âeconomyâ would use this war and rise up against you, as was done before, the last time you over-reached? This time with their free kin ready to stand with them. This time bolstered by knowing it has succeeded during even worse odds. This time knowing weâve resurrected an entire tribe with force.
⌠oh no, Vaari the Golden Shower. I wouldnât be so certain of âwar economyâ winning the day. Weâve had a lot of time to let the seeds of war and iron will you planted in our hearts on the Day of Darkness grow and bear fruit. I think youâd find that among your scriptures you wonât find any passage that can compare with the two simple words engraved upon our very hearts.
Never. Again.
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My dearest Lady.
May you live in prosperity.
I dont know have you read all my writings or just those part which irritates you.
I, Lord Vaari have given your young republic glory and awe from the start to the end. I have precisely brought your deterrence doctrine to known as you say.
Cold truth is this. If Amarr Empire would like to subjucate, destroy or humiliate Minmatar Republic in war, it can do it. Cost of doing it would be catastrophic.
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